Record -50°F confirmed for Maine; is this inconsistent with global warming?

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 1:41 PM GMT on February 13, 2009

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The lowest temperature ever recorded in the state of Maine, a -50°F reading taken on January 16, has been confirmed as real, according to a press release issued by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) and National Weather Service this week. The new record occurred at 7:15 a.m. Jan. 16 at a remote river gauge in Big Black River (see USGS image at right), about four miles from the Canadian border. It ties the record set in 1933 for New England's lowest temperature, set at Bloomfield, Vermont. The old Maine record was -48°F, set in 1925 at Van Buren. All-time state records are difficult to break. The last time a state record low was set occurred January 5, 1999, when Congerville, Illinois recorded -36°F. Only one state record high temperature has been set in the past the decade--the 120°F temperature measured in Usta, South Dakota on July 15, 2006.

All-time record lows are inconsistent with global warming, right?
An impressive cold wave hit the northern and eastern portions of the U.S. January 11-18, with 17 states reporting record daily lows. In addition to the coldest temperature ever measured in Maine, one station, Waterloo, Iowa, tied its 1962 record for all-time coldest temperature, when the mercury hit -34°F on January 16. If global warming is occurring, we should not expect to see very many all-time city or state records being set. The nation's January-December average temperature has increased at a rate of 0.12°F per decade since 1895, and at a faster rate of 0.41°F per decade during the last 50 years. This 2°F rise in temperature has undoubtedly allowed more high temperature than low temperature records to be broken. However, this is a low enough amount of warming that there should still be a few cold temperature records being set, since the weather is so highly variable.

The statistics support this position. The Waterloo, Iowa mark was only the second time this decade that an all-time record cold temperature has been set at a major U.S. city. The cities I consider are the 303 cities author Chris Burt tracks in his excellent Extreme Weather book. The cites chosen were selected based primarily on their length of weather records (all the records go back to at least 1948, with most going back to the 1800s), and include all the largest cities in the U.S. The only other all-time coldest temperature record set at these cities this decade was the -44°F recorded in Grand Forks, North Dakota on 1/30/2004. By contrast, 49 all-time high temperature marks have been set this decade (Figure 1).

Perhaps a better judge of the impact of global warming on extreme temperatures, though, is to look at record warmest and coldest months. Month-long records are more reflective of the climate than an extreme event lasting just a few days. No all-time coldest month records were at any U.S. cities during January 2009, and it was not even close. Despite the cold blast of Jan. 11-18, the month of January finished out above average in temperature for the lower 48 states. So far this decade, no U.S. major city has set an all-time coldest month record. The last time a coldest month record was set occurred in January, 1994 when Caribou Maine and Bayfield, Wisconsin recorded their coldest month. By contrast, there have been 61 all-time warmest month records set in those same 303 cities between 2000 and 2008 (Figure 1). The summer of 2007 alone saw 42 all-time high (or warmest month ever) records. Just one record was set in the summer of 2008.


Figure 1. Minimum and maximum temperatures records for the U.S. for 303 major stations. The image has been updated through January 2009 to include the one record low set that month. The original version of this image was for 2007, and I modified it to update it for four changes made in the 2008 data. The numbers for the decade of the 2000s are correct, but there are four (out of 606) records that need to be subtracted off some of the earlier decades. Note the the 1930s were the most extreme decade for total number of records set, but the 1920s were the least extreme. U.S. weather has a high degree of variability from decade to decade. Image credit: Chris Burt, Extreme Weather.

Are the pattern of U.S. temperature records due to the Urban Heat Island effect?
There have been 110 all-time high temperature or all-time warmest month records set at the 303 major U.S. cities this decade, and only two such low temperature records set. Is this disparity due to global warming, or the Urban Heat Island effect? The Urban Heat Island (UHI) effect occurs when development of former natural areas into pavement and buildings allows more heat to be trapped in cities, particularly at night. During the day, the UHI effect often leads to a slight cooling, since it can increase the amount of turbulence, allowing cooler air to get mixed down to the surface. For example, Moreno-Garcia (1994) found that Barcelona, Spain was 0.2°C cooler for daily maxima and 2.9°C warmer for minima than a nearby rural station.

However, temperature records are typically taken in parks and airports removed from the main heat-trapping areas of cities, and are not as strongly affected as one might expect. There are several reasons for this. One is that when tall buildings are present, they tend to block the view to the sky, meaning that not as much heat can escape upwards. In addition, the presence of moist vegetation keeps the atmosphere moister in park-like areas (which include the grassy fields near airports where temperature measurements are taken). This extra moisture helps cool the atmosphere on a local scale of tens of meters, due to latent heat effects (the energy required to convert liquid water to water vapor). Peterson (2003) found that "Contrary to generally accepted wisdom, no statistically significant impact of urbanization could be found in annual temperatures." The study used satellite-based night-light detection to identify urban areas. Recent research by Spronken-Smith and Oke (1998) concluded that there was a marked park cool island effect within the Urban Heat Island. They found that parks in typical cities in the U.S. have temperatures 1 - 2°C cooler than the surrounding city--and sometimes more than 5°C cooler. While the Urban Heat Island effect probably has contributed to some of the reduction in record low temperatures in the U.S. in the past decade, research by Parker (2004, 2006) and Peterson (2003) theorizes that Urban Heat Island effect is a factor ten or more less important than rising temperatures due to global warming.

Is the Urban Heat Island effect partially responsible for global warming?
Global warming is affecting the entire Earth, including rural areas far from cities, and the 70% of the world covered by ocean. Thus, the Urban Heat Island effect--if not corrected for--can cause only a small impact on the global temperature figures. Since the Urban Heat Island is corrected for, the impact on the observed global warming signal should be negligible. For instance, NASA uses satellite-derived night light observations to classify stations as rural and urban and corrects the urban stations so that they match the trends from the rural stations before gridding the data. Other techniques (such as correcting for population growth) have also been used. Despite these corrections, and the fact that the Urban Heat Island effect impacts only a relatively small portion of the globe, global warming skeptics have persistently used the Urban Heat Island effect to attack the validity of global warming. There are no published peer-reviewed scientific studies that support these attacks.

References
Parker, D.E., 2004, "Large-Scale Warming is not Urban", Nature 432, 290, doi:10.1038/432290a, 2004.

Parker, D.E., 2006, "A Demonstration that Large-Scale Warming is not Urban", J. Climate 19, pp2882-2986, 2006.

Peterson, T.C., "Assessment of urban versus rural in situ surface temperatures in the contiguous United States: No difference found", Journal of Climate, 16, 2941-2959, 2003.

Spronken-Smith, R. A., and T. R. Oke, 1998: "The thermal regime of urban parks in two cities with different summer climates. Int. J. Remote Sens., 19, 20852104.

The surface temperature record and the urban heat island, realclimate.org post, 2004.

My next post will be sometime Tue-Thu.

Jeff Masters

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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
ya i know the doc provides the dead horse and we got a lot that like to beat it with a stick to make sure its dead



I'm sure he writes up a blog like that... laughs his butt off know the responses he will get, grabs a dozen beer and sits back to watche.
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
Quoting Orcasystems:


Ahhhh you know me.. occasionally I have to point out there is a middle of the road :) Its the Swiss/Canadian in me coming out.. you know.. the Peace Keeper.


With a halo...
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ya i know the doc provides the dead horse and we got a lot that like to beat it with a stick to make sure its dead

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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
orca how ya doing having a good day i see


Ahhhh you know me.. occasionally I have to point out there is a middle of the road :) Its the Swiss/Canadian in me coming out.. you know.. the Peace Keeper.
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511

Moron was my word, and you don't know me very well, trust me, if I scream at you.. you'll know it (It will be in caps, and I would have been calling you the Moron).

I am pointing out that your immediate response was.. if your not against it.. as you stated "does that mean you think it's a good thing?"... No middle ground.. for or against.
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
orca how ya doing having a good day i see
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Quoting pangean:


Since you quoted my comment, I assume this addressed to me. You're going to have to point out to me who I called a moron and in what post I did it. I sure can't find it and don't understand why you're screaming at me. Am I not allowed to rebut the points that theshepard presented in his comment?


Moron was my word, and you don't know me very well, trust me, if I scream at you.. you'll know it.

I am pointing out that your immediate response was.. if your not against it.. you said "does that mean you think it's a good thing?". No middle ground.. for or against.
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
Does anyone know where to find best track data for the BoM and IMD?? I can't seem to find it.
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Quoting theshepherd:
221 pan
The feasability of the technologies are real and already attained.
The Sophistry of your argument is also real and already attained.
Know about what you write.

And while your at it, read some technical manuals instead of surfing factoids of dubious origin.
Let me know when you've rebuilt an automobile air conditioner.


OK, tell me where I could find an operating clean coal generating plant - in ths context we'll take clean coal to mean minimal/no CO2 emissions. Heck, how about an existing plant that does any CO2 sequestration? Same goes for CO2 based refrigeration equipment. As I said, CO2 is already cheap and available so if it's such a good refrigerant, there must be lots of equipment out there using the technology. BTW - not sure where you come up with sophistry, that seems to apply to your comments. Saying that "clean coal is reality" is certainly misleading but the vapor pressure of CO2 is easily verified.
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230. Skyepony (Mod)
Here's an article with all sorts of climate experts thoughts on Australia's fires & what is to come, complete with many references..

One big eye opener was 200 climate scientists agreeing..
“Global warming is accelerating. The Arctic summer sea ice is expected to melt entirely within the next five years – decades earlier than predicted in the 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 4th Assessment Report.

As Aussie's article pointed out & I think something that has brought a sudden urgency by scientists is this past months CO2 readings. The predictions were based on actually doing something to curb CO2 or atleast business as usual, not this...
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221 pan
The feasability of the technologies are real and already attained.
The Sophistry of your argument is also real and already attained.
Know about what you write.

And while your at it, read some technical manuals instead of surfing factoids of dubious origin.
Let me know when you've rebuilt an automobile air conditioner.
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10084
Quoting Orcasystems:


This is the problem with the AGW... and your response is typical. Your either 100% for it, or your obviously a moron and 100& against it.

There is an middle of the road position that does not include all of the global gloom and dome that the AGW predict if we do not follow their Godly advice 100%

I personally think its a mix of both, and changing our habits will not hurt, but it sure won't cure it.

You'll find that people are more willing to listen to your points of view if you do not try and ram it down their throats, or call them morons for not obviously not believing absolutely everything only one side says.



Since you quoted my comment, I assume this addressed to me. You're going to have to point out to me who I called a moron and in what post I did it. I sure can't find it and don't understand why you're screaming at me. Am I not allowed to rebut the points that theshepard presented in his comment?
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Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 424 Comments: 128347
Quoting Patrap:



8,000 evacuated as Colombia volcano stirs: officials

12 hours ago Link

PASTO, Colombia (AFP) — Galeras volcano in southern Colombia, near the border with Ecuador, began erupting and some 8,000 residents were ordered to evacuate, the Colombian Institute of Geology and Mines said.

Wow, that's an amazing picture! Close to sunrise, and I can still see many stars with their trails in that image! The moon, too!
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Quoting pangean:
re: 208. theshepherd 2:48 PM GMT on February 15, 2009


"I'm not an opponent of AGW by any means, but I "am" on the verge of offering a lot of intelligent well meaning scientists a little "whine" with their cheese."

--If you're not an opponent of AGW, does that mean you think it's a good thing? And I think that maybe you should save that cheese for yourself.


This is the problem with the AGW... and your response is typical. Your either 100% for it, or your obviously a moron and 100& against it.

There is an middle of the road position that does not include all of the global gloom and dome that the AGW predict if we do not follow their Godly advice 100%

I personally think its a mix of both, and changing our habits will not hurt, but it sure won't cure it.

You'll find that people are more willing to listen to your points of view if you do not try and ram it down their throats, or call them morons for not obviously not believing absolutely everything only one side says.

Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
Wow, I just went for a bike ride down the trail near a local river. Before I came to the main river, I saw some evidence of flooding near a tributary: ice was present less than a metre (3 ft) from a house. There were also icicles dripping from a pipe that leads into the river during times of flood. As I came to the main river, there was a small island, crisscrossed by liquid and frozen water, its vegetation flattened by the flood.

What caught my eye at the main river were things that looked like plastic bags rising out of the water, but upon further inspection, I realised they were icicles hanging from thin tree branches above the water! As you may know, last week's warmth and melting snow triggered a minor flood around the river valley. I knew how those icicles must have formed: when the river level was high, and temperatures dropped below freezing, river water began to freeze around the thin branches below the water. As the water began to recede, the ice around the brances remained, and the lower parts of the branches, which received freezing water for a longer period, had more ice, thus forming the "bag" shape. Some of the tops of these bag-like icicles were about two feet above the current river water level. Some icicles touched the water, others did not. The ones that did touch the water were often connected to a floating piece of ice on the surface of the river, and if the river level drops further without the ice melting, then the ice could drag down the branches and break them.

I also saw ice, with soaked, frozen grass, as much as a metre (3.3 ft) above the current water level. That means the water must have flooded that high! I saw a picture in the local newspaper depicting the high water level last week. Also, I saw these huge pieces of ice high above the water, some weighing an estimated 250 kg (550 lb.), and I concluded that they must have formed when river water met with melting snow and refroze, forming a thick, broken layer of ice. As I rode my bike upstream, I found a river, that is usually only flowing in summer, covered in a thick layer of broken ice. There was a trail between the small river and the larger river it flows into, and evidence of flooding was seen on the side of the smaller river!

Further upstream, I saw about five dozen ducks along an 80-metre strech of river (about 270 ft). Further upstream, I came to a small lake, with its surface almost completely frozen. There was more evidence of previous flooding, with rock-hard soil and a layer of broken ice.

Now for some international news: Galeras has once again erupted! 8000 people around the base of the infamous volcano in Colombia have been evacuated.
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8,000 evacuated as Colombia volcano stirs: officials

12 hours ago Link

PASTO, Colombia (AFP) — Galeras volcano in southern Colombia, near the border with Ecuador, began erupting and some 8,000 residents were ordered to evacuate, the Colombian Institute of Geology and Mines said.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 424 Comments: 128347
Climate change takes a mental toll
By Emily Anthes
Globe Correspondent / February 9, 2009 Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 424 Comments: 128347
re: 208. theshepherd 2:48 PM GMT on February 15, 2009

"Clean coal is a reality. The problem is what to do with the large amounts of CO2 that is captured by the scrubbers."

--Actually, clean coal is an oxymoron. To my mind, saying something is a reality means it exists in the here and now, not that it might exist in a couple of decades. Remember that the DOE axed funding for FutureGen a year ago. And finding a place for the CO2 is not the biggest issue.


"CO2 as a refrigerant gas is a reality. One of the problems is where do we get all that CO2. Hmmmm?"

--I'm curious how you came up with this? I can't see how it could be practical. The vapor pressure of CO2 at room temperature is something like 800 psi, as opposed to 80 psi for R-12. Dealing with that kind of pressure in residential equipment would be a real challenge. Also, there's no shortage of CO2. It is certainly cheap and plentiful relative to commercial refrigerants.

"We "can" do more than just worry about it. Didn't see it in the Stimulus Package."

--Not sure what you mean here. There's substantial funding for the development of alternative energy sources in the stimulus package just passed by Congress.


"'Magic battery' sitting on the shelf at GM? Didn't see it as a barganing tool when we gave them their money. Guess it doesn't exist."

--I've heard the rumors about GM's battery also. Don't think you can base effective public policy on rumor, however.


"Surely all the brilliant scientists and professors and politicians of the world would have taken issue."

--Taken issue with what?


"Surely pumping more and more money into the obvious effects is more important than concentrating on employing existing tools."

--???

"I'm not an opponent of AGW by any means, but I "am" on the verge of offering a lot of intelligent well meaning scientists a little "whine" with their cheese."

--If you're not an opponent of AGW, does that mean you think it's a good thing? And I think that maybe you should save that cheese for yourself.


"Too many swimming in the same pool and sharing the same hood that need to "cross over" to other disciplines and actually "make" something."

--Not exactly sure what you're getting at here but I think that you probably lack any meaningful understanding of how science actually works.

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Quoting BahaHurican:
I don't know why I find posts like this so offensive. Maybe it's the gratuitous attack on ALL meteorologists and the denigrating of their education, study and work ethic, not to mention their intelligence. I have to ask: what have YOU studied? Are you a PHD in math? Have you studied as much meteorology and climatology as the people you so nauseatingly ridicule?

I'm tired of two-bit ignoramuses sneering at educated hardworking people they don't even know.


I agree with you, Baha.

Stupid thing is I am a met, I have a lot of math and statistics in my background, and I agree with some of what that dude said, but he is not going to have me going to bat for his viewpoint with that 'tude.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
Climate change could be even worse than predicted, expert warns
Article from: Agence France-Presse

February 15, 2009 02:48am

IT seems the dire warnings about the oncoming devastation wrought by global warming were not dire enough, a top climate scientist says.
It has been just over a year since the Nobel-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) published a landmark report warning of rising sea levels, expanding deserts, more intense storms and the extinction of up to 30 per cent of plant and animal species.

But recent climate studies suggest that report significantly underestimates the potential severity of global warming over the next 100 years, a senior member of the panel said.

"We now have data showing that from 2000 to 2007, greenhouse gas emissions increased far more rapidly than we expected," said Chris Field, who was a coordinating lead author of the report.
This is "primarily because developing countries like China and India saw a huge upsurge in electric power generation, almost all of it based on coal," Mr Field said ahead of a presentation to the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Without decisive action to slow global warming, higher temperatures could ignite tropical forests and thaw the Arctic tundra, potentially releasing billions of tons of carbon dioxide that has been stored for thousands of years.

That could raise temperatures even more and create "a vicious cycle that could spiral out of control by the end of the century".

"We don't want to cross a critical threshold where this massive release of carbon starts to run on autopilot," said Field, a professor of biology and of environmental earth system science at Stanford University.

The amount of carbon that could be released is staggering.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution an estimated 350 billions tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) has been released through the burning of fossil fuels.

The new estimate of the amount of carbon stored in the Arctic's permafrost soils is about 1,000 billion tons. And the Arctic is warming faster than any other part of the globe.

Several recent climate models have estimated that the loss of tropical rainforests to wildfires, deforestation and other causes could increase the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere from 10 to 100 parts per million by the end of the century.

The current level is about 380 parts per million.

"Tropical forests are essentially inflammable," Mr Field said.

"You couldn't get a fire to burn there if you tried. But if they dry out just a little bit, the result can be very large and destructive wildfires."

Recent studies have also shown that global warming is reducing the ocean's ability to store carbon by altering wind patterns in the Southern Ocean.

"As the earth warms, it generates faster winds over the oceans surrounding Antarctica," Mr Field said.

"These winds essentially blow the surface water out of the way, allowing water with higher concentrations of CO2 to rise to the surface. This higher-CO2 water is closer to CO2-saturated, so it takes up less carbon dioxide from the atmosphere."

Mr Field is co-chair of the group charged with assessing the impacts of climate change on social, economic and natural systems for the IPCC's fifth assessment due in 2014.

The 2007 fourth assessment presented at a "very conservative range of climate outcomes" but the next report will "include futures with a lot more warming", Mr Field said.

"We now know that, without effective action, climate change is going to be larger and more difficult to deal with than we thought."
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US raises $76,000 for Victoria fires victims
Article from: AAP

By Peter Mitchell in Los Angeles

February 15, 2009 01:00am

AUSTRALIAN and Americans have come together in Los Angeles and New York to raise more than $76,587 for victims of the Victoria fires.

Organisers in both cities were astounded by the turnout.

The Los Angeles event was held at Sunset Boulevard bar The Blue Goose Lounge while several thousand New Yorkers packed Manhattan bar and restaurant, The Australian, throughout the day.

"It was shoulder to shoulder throughout the entire day and night," Australian Consul General in New York, John Olsen said.

"On a holiday weekend in New York to have that sort of response and turnout was tremendous."

Olsen estimated more than $76,587 alone was raised at the New York function for the Australian Red Cross Bushfire Appeal, where a $30.63 entry fee was charged, $3.06 from every drink was donated to the appeal and raffles for VB, Tooheys and Boags beer and Tim Tams were held.

Australian gridiron star Ben Graham attended and signed a pair of his NFL boots as part of a sports memorabilia auction.

Olsen was also honoured by the turnout of US officials, including senior members of the New York fire and police departments as well as the national president of the Vietnam Veterans of America.

A minute's silence was held at the New York event and the US and Australian national anthems were played.

"I'm staggered with the response," Olsen said.

"If ever there was a question about the US-Australian alliance, it showed it to me in New York tonight it has never been stronger.

"It was very real."
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Complete Blog Refresh
Mirror Site
New Section includes Mt Redoubt
I am now using Google Earth Version 5



I am also trying something new with these link
Display Current
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
Wild weather, rain for days but summer will return
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

February 16, 2009 02:00am


Water everywhere ... Jayden Bye, 12, floats down flooded Wallace St in Maitland yesterday.


TORRENTIAL rain, gales and dangerous surf will continue to batter parts of the state today as residents clean up from 24 hours of flooding and damaged homes.


The Hunter region and the mid-North Coast bore the brunt of the wild weekend weather, with some areas receiving 210mm of rain in 24 hours.

The SES took more than 380 calls for help, mostly associated with damage caused by strong winds including fallen trees, leaky roofs and flooded sheds and garages.

Wet weather is expected to linger for a couple more days in Sydney, with heavy rain forecast for tomorrow, before it clears on Wednesday.

Although the Sydney rainfall will not be as heavy as the North Coast and Hunter, the weather bureau said it will rain for much of tomorrow.

Senior forecaster Neale Fraser said most suburbs would get about 50mm of rain.

"The rain will be possibly heavy. It could be quite significant," he said.

But the warm weather will return on Wednesday and Thursday.

"Summer's not finished yet. The sunshine will be returning this week," Mr Fraser said.

Residents in the drought-stricken town of Bourke had to pump water from homes after receiving a 200mm deluge in 24 hours - the highest one-day fall in 120 years.

About 25 homes were damaged in flash floods, while farmers in surrounding districts had to move livestock to higher ground.

Grazier Tony Thompson, who runs a 5000ha property on the outskirts of Bourke, described hail stones the size of cricket balls while he moved 1500 head of sheep.

"It's bitter sweet, we need the rain but we now have more water than you can poke a stick at," he said.

On the mid-North Coast the Bureau of Meteorology issued minor flood warnings for the Bellinger River.

It also issued a flood alert for other coastal regions including Kempsey, which received 172mm of rain in the 24 hours to 9am yesterday.

The bureau's severe weather forecaster Michael Logan said a low pressure system off the North Coast should move south this afternoon or tonight and be off the South Coast by Wednesday.

Mr Logan said the wet weather was not unusual for this time of year but people had noticed it more because of the extreme contrast to the previous weekend's 40C-plus temperatures.

"Late summer and autumn are actually quite wet times of year for parts of NSW," he said.
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Suvivours praise hero of Kinglake National Park Hotel

THE man who stared down the bushfires on the roof of a Kinglake pub as he protected hundreds of fleeing residents has been reunited with some of the children he saved. From their young mouths comes the praise of a nation ... Thank you Peter Thorneycroft.



THE thong-wearing hero who saved children huddled in a pub coolroom at the eye of the deadly bushfire is embarrassed by all the attention.

Peter Thorneycroft, 43, doused deadly embers while 20 women and children sheltered in the Kinglake National Park Hotel coolroom with their pets.

Another 400 people were outside the pub in their cars.

He says anyone who found themselves in that position would do the same thing.

A group of grateful children beg to differ.

To the four Drews children, aged between 3 and 13, Mr Thorneycroft is a genuine hero.

Lauren, 13, said the no-nonsense tradesman definitely saved her life.

"I can't thank him enough," she said.

"Everyone was crying. I thought everything was going to go up."

Up to 400 others sheltered in cars around the pub, which witnesses say would have gone up if thong-wearing Mr Thorneycroft and others had not stepped in.

Brave locals passed him buckets of water and hosed around the pub.

Lauren's parents Simon Drews, 33, and Tracey Roks-Drews, 33, run the Kinglake Diner, which survived with damage, but they lost their home.

Tracey was in the cool room with Lauren and her other children Jarrod, 8, Cooper, 5, and Kalani, 3, while Mr Drews helped Mr Thorneycroft.

"At the end of the day being where we were saved our lives," Ms Roks-Drews said.

Jarrod said he was "a bit scared" because it was dark, but someone gave him a portable light.

"I was making sure everyone was seeing," he said.

Cooper was oblivious to Mr Thorneycroft's actions.

"Was he on the roof?" he said.

"We heard lots of banging."

Mr Thorneycroft's house miraculously survived but that hasn't stopped him from helping to clean up Kinglake.

Yesterday he took a break so the Drews family could thank him.

The unforgettable image of him standing on the pub roof, taken by survivor Tanya Cadman, drew worldwide attention.

But he is not interested in accolades, and insists he is one of many who simply did their best.

"I was just up there to make sure it didn't go," he said.

"The whole pub was full of smoke. When I got up there, there was embers above where the coolroom is."

"It was ... like hell on earth. You just do it.

"You don't even think about it. You just live on survival mode.''

The coolroom also sheltered many pets, including the Drews' cat Simba, dogs Stray Dog and Jodie, lorikeets Lucas and Bella and galah Lucky.

Mr Thorneycroft's wife Jodie, 41, said her husband was embarrassed by all the attention.

The Drews family lost everything in the blaze, except Lauren's phone, camera and laptop.

Lauren returned to Diamond Valley College on Friday, but Jarrod and Cooper, who started school this year, have been unable to return to Kinglake East Primary, which is still closed.

Since the fire, Mr Thorneycroft, 43, and his bricklayer brother Richard Woolley, 39, have spent 12-hour days clearing roads and cleaning up the area.

Mr Woolley, who was helping save a nearby house while his brother was on the pub, is even cleaning up the yards of survivor's homes for when they return.

Both have seen things no one should ever see but, like other selfless volunteers, refuse to slow down.

Mr Thorneycroft is also battling a debilitating arm injury that causes constant pain.

He has not had it operated on because he can't afford to take a year off work to recuperate.

A father of two and grandfather of one, he insists the real heroes are banks and insurance companies who are paying up fast.

"They're actually keeping us going," he said.

"I've actually got faith in humanity and I had lost faith in humanity."

Survivors now have to deal with the loss of many friends.

"Jarrod's lost his little girlfriend," Ms Roks-Drews said.

"He loved that girl. I said 'Did you tell her you love her?' He said 'No I never got the chance'."
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Doc Master's, the Panic in your blogs of trying to convince people of what ever you're calling it these days, is getting comical. To say that Urban Heat Island Effect has no effect on collecting temp data is non-professional. There has been countless studies on this and yet you don't list one. Please at least act like an objective scientist.

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/MM.JGR07-background.pdf
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Quoting TampaSpin:
This might be a very stupid question. But, would it even be possible without being attacked by some to think that the left over nuclear waist could be used in very small amounts as a power plant (engine) for Auto transportation. Obviously, it would have to housed (enclosed) to be of no danger. But, think of a sweet silent car....WOW!

Not attacking you by any means:
The "potential for abuse" makes nuclear powered transportation out of the question.
The silent car is already here. New electric motors can really smoke it down the highway. We just need the battery....LOL
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10084
208. theshepherd
Whole-heartedly agree.

210. TampaSpin
Too many extremist and just plain crazies around. Someone would figure out access. Might not the stuff a nuclear bomb is made of, but would certainly be the stuff that would contaminate the environment - think 'dirty bomb'
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This might be a very stupid question. But, would it even be possible without being attacked by some to think that the left over nuclear waist could be used in very small amounts as a power plant (engine) for Auto transportation. Obviously, it would have to housed (enclosed) to be of no danger. But, think of a sweet silent car....WOW!
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19. theshepherd 2:23 PM GMT on February 15, 2009
Clean coal is a reality. The problem is what to do with the large amounts of CO2 that is captured by the scrubbers.
CO2 as a refrigerant gas is a reality. One of the problems is where do we get all that CO2.
Hmmmm?
We "can" do more than just worry about it.
Didn't see it in the Stimulus Package.
"Magic battery" sitting on the shelf at GM?
Didn't see it as a barganing tool when we gave them their money. Guess it doesn't exist. Surely all the brilliant scientists and professors and politicians of the world would have taken issue.
Surely pumping more and more money into the obvious effects is more important than concentrating on employing existing tools.
I'm not an opponent of AGW by any means, but I "am" on the verge of offering a lot of intelligent well meaning scientists a little "whine" with their cheese.
Too many swimming in the same pool and sharing the same hood that need to "cross over" to other disciplines and actually "make" something.


Action: Quote | Modify Comment
Member Since: September 11, 2008 Posts: 9 Comments: 10084
Quoting Skyepony:
That really stressed out my winter rye pasture.. I don't wanna see those temps again til June.

Here's the latest on Geoengineering. I'd vote for "tree bombs". Looks like they were already tested after Katrina. A 1000' windmill sounds interesting. At 1st glance microwaving the earth with satellites sounds bad as does anything involving the t word..


Those are diffently the Best Scientist that Global Warming People have at Art of thinking. I wonder which idea Big Al will explore.....LOL....OMG!
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206. Skyepony (Mod)
That really stressed out my winter rye pasture.. I don't wanna see those temps again til June.

Here's the latest on Geoengineering. I'd vote for "tree bombs". Looks like they were already tested after Katrina. A 1000' windmill sounds interesting. At 1st glance microwaving the earth with satellites sounds bad as does anything involving the t word..
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Quoting Skyepony:
Another clear example of human caused global warming in my hometown...It was HOT here yesterday...sorry for contributing:P

RECORD EVENT REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MELBOURNE
424 PM EST SAT FEB 14 2009

...RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE SET AT MELBOURNE...

THE WARMTH RADIATING FROM LOVING COUPLES IN THE MELBOURNE AREA
THIS VALENTINES DAY PUSHED THE TEMPERATURE TO A NEW RECORD HIGH OF
87 DEGREES.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD FOR THIS DATE WAS 86 SET IN 1962.


$$
DIETZMANN



I got a record on Friday of 84 Degrees in my place.
Should warm up again (I hope) in a week,
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 24041
Quoting Skyepony:
Another clear example of human caused global warming in my hometown...It was HOT here yesterday...sorry for contributing:P

RECORD EVENT REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MELBOURNE
424 PM EST SAT FEB 14 2009

...RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE SET AT MELBOURNE...

THE WARMTH RADIATING FROM LOVING COUPLES IN THE MELBOURNE AREA
THIS VALENTINES DAY PUSHED THE TEMPERATURE TO A NEW RECORD HIGH OF
87 DEGREES.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD FOR THIS DATE WAS 86 SET IN 1962.


$$
DIETZMANN



What did you expect?

It was Valentines Day.

Way to go Melbourne...

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I just updated my Weather Blog if anyone would like to view.......

TampaSpins Weather Blog Link
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202. Skyepony (Mod)
Another clear example of human caused global warming in my hometown...It was HOT here yesterday...sorry for contributing:P

RECORD EVENT REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MELBOURNE
424 PM EST SAT FEB 14 2009

...RECORD HIGH TEMPERATURE SET AT MELBOURNE...

THE WARMTH RADIATING FROM LOVING COUPLES IN THE MELBOURNE AREA
THIS VALENTINES DAY PUSHED THE TEMPERATURE TO A NEW RECORD HIGH OF
87 DEGREES.

THE PREVIOUS RECORD FOR THIS DATE WAS 86 SET IN 1962.


$$
DIETZMANN

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107 Days till Hurricane season.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 24041
Morning Aussie -- so sorry to read these fires are still threatening AussieLand...... such grief for all
Member Since: July 18, 2007 Posts: 30 Comments: 26536
PM Kevin Rudd joins Wandong locals at memorial service
Article from: AAP

By Edwina Scott

February 15, 2009 09:09pm

AN unprecedented outpouring of grief began today over Victoria's devastating bushfires with a phone call from Wandong resident Rose Dove bringing Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to church today.

For the first time since the Kinglake complex fire swept through the small town north of Melbourne just over one week ago, hundreds of residents gathered for an open-air service in a mark of solidarity and reflection.

The inferno that tore through Wandong destroyed 200 homes, with three people perishing in the flames.

At nearby Whittlesea, Governor General Quentin Bryce and her husband Michael attended a service at the Anglican Christ Church, along with more than 300 locals, firefighters and relief workers.

In Melbourne, several hundred people from 17 Christian churches across the city converged in the Fitzroy Gardens after their morning services, praying for those who died in the fires and those who lost their homes.

On the Wandong footy oval Reverend Carmel Hunter conducted the service on the back of a Kenworth semi-trailer, flanked by Country Fire Authority (CFA) trucks from the Wandong and Kilmore brigades.

Described by Mr Rudd as "a persistent lady", Rose telephoned Canberra on Friday and invited him to the memorial service to ease the sense of desolation engulfing the tight-knit community.

"(On) Thursday I saw people who were just so low ... He said he was very eager to come down," she said.

"I thought it was an impossibility ... I knew how busy his schedule was, but I said it would mean a great deal to the community."

Rose, who works in diplomacy for the prime minister and cabinet in Melbourne, said the non-denominational service was an opportunity to exchange stories and begin the healing process.
"It's been very good for the people," she said.

"He (Mr Rudd) has recognised what we went through and also what our firefighters have done.

"I think the people who've lost the properties know now that they've got friends.

"I think it's to know that we're all willing to help.

"This doesn't stop here today, we'll be going on, we'll be fundraising..."

Religious ministers said a prayer for soaking rains and the bipartisan spirit of leadership shown through the week was also acknowledged.

Mr Rudd joined locals singing Amazing Grace and placing gum leaves and flowers into a bowl of water as a symbol of remembrance and rebuilding.

"What has happened here is the story of what has happened everywhere - but it's also very special to you as a community," he told the crowd.

He vowed Wandong would be supported in their recovery.

"We will be with you every step of the way until this community is rebuilt," he said.

CFA volunteers, wearing orange overalls covered in ash, were thanked many times by a grateful group during the moving ceremony.

"You put yourselves last and your community first," Mr Rudd declared.

On a lighter note, the prime minister remarked that Elvis was indeed still alive, referring to the firefighting helicrane that dropped 9000 litres of water as flames swept across the region.

"Elvis is still with us," the PM said with a smile.
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New bushfire in Dandenong Ranges National Park puts homes at risk
Article from: AAP

February 15, 2009 09:45pm

A BUSHFIRE has broken out in the Dandenong Ranges National Park and has several communities under ember attack.

The fire is burning north through the park from a point neat Terrys Avenue and Sandells Road at Tecoma, a Country Fire Authority spokesman said.

Residents of Ferny Creek, Sherbrooke, Kallista, Tecoma and Belgrave have been warned they may be directly affected by the five hectare blaze.

Meanwhile, firefighters are building two containment lines between the blaze burning out of control near Alexandra, with the fallback line at Lake Eildon about 20km east.

Fire crews from the Department of Sustainability and Environment and the Country Fire Authority are allowing the fire, part of the Kilmore-Murrindindi Complex, burn up to the containment lines.

The blaze has a 30km front and will reach its first major containment line about 10km from Lake Eildon.

If it manages to jump that, a second containment line is being bulldozed near Lake Eildon.

Department of Sustainability and environment spokesman Kevin Love said two Helitack helicopters have helped reduce the intensity of the fire in the Dandenong Ranges National Park but said it remains out of control.
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A pleasant 63 degrees this morning.... goes great w/the coffee..waiting on sunrise & a cardinals morning song - then a nice long run -- It's WHY WE LIVE HERE WEATHER in SWFL
Member Since: July 18, 2007 Posts: 30 Comments: 26536
So much for not being one of their big cities...We have seen -74 F here in our small community that everyone that comes into alaska has to pass through and has been stated as the coldest spot in the "Interior of Alaska".
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Quoting melwerle:
..

Not quite what I meant Orca - i MEANT whether you're fishing OR sailing - either one is better than work.

My we're all touchy in here lately...I think it's about time for hurricane season so we can stop sounding like my teenagers on a rainy day stuck inside.



I know that :)
But it was a fun conversation to have going on a boring day on the blog :)

That being said.. who would go out in a boat with out a fishing rod?
Member Since: October 1, 2007 Posts: 81 Comments: 26511
The temp in this blog is increasing with every heated comment. I think we're experiencing blogal warming. Had to lighten things up a little ;)
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193. Skyepony (Mod)
Anyone else been watching the low off Alaska. It's weakend, was 970mb 6 hrs ago, now up to 977mb.

Futuremet~ I missed what you deleted..

Wunderful~ Maybe the real dark shade nasa is using up around the Artic is causing all the soot up there..that would explain the melting.. Yeah Fushia, might cause the tundra to self combust..
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Re: 181. Skyepony...

Errr...this is from one of those links you posted...

?????

January 2009 temperatures were above average in much of the land areas of the globe,
with the exception of cooler-than-average temperatures across the northeastern and midwestern contiguous U.S., western Alaska, eastern Russia, western Europe, northwestern Africa, southeastern Asia, northeastern Australia, and northern Argentina.

The NASA link is even worse.

---------------

Hey baha...does that seem like educated scientific commentary to you? Sounds like extremely slanted bias to me.

They lead off with an outlandish claim and then, with slight of hand whisk it all away at the end of the sentence. And depend on our stupidity not to notice.

Yes baha they might be educated, only problem is they are apparently not that well educated.
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Quoting Skyepony:


Interesting feature.
Member Since: July 8, 2005 Posts: 259 Comments: 24041
Hey, Pottery. Is it cold down there in Trinidad?

lol
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LOL, Good one, Pat.
Member Since: October 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 24314

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.