Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Gulf of Mexico storm not likely to become a depression; storm kills 11 in Haiti
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 1:38 PM GMT on May 22, 2009 +6
The large extratropical storm that has been pounding Florida and the Bahamas this week with heavy rain and high surf extended its reach yesterday, killing at least 11 people in Haiti. According to Reuters, most of the victims were killed while crossing rivers or when their flimsy homes collapsed. Approximately six inches of rain fell on Haiti's southwest peninsula in the 24 hours ending at 8pm EDT. Hundreds of homes were flooded and dozens destroyed in the flooding, which left 40% of the southern city of Cayes underwater. The impoverished Caribbean country is still struggling to recover from the massive flooding that killed over 800 people during the hurricane season of 2008. In March, UN chief Ban Ki-moon and Bill Clinton--who was this week appointed UN special envoy to the island--toured Haiti together and urged the international community to continue to aid the country. Participants at a Washington international donors conference in April agreed to donate $324 million to help Haiti rebuild.

The worst of the rain and flooding is over for Florida, which has seen rainfall amounts this week as high as 23.75 inches at the Flagler County Fairgrounds. Another 1 - 2 inches are expected in Northeast Florida today from the storm, along with beach erosion, 6 - 8 foot waves, and tides 1 - 2 feet above normal. The bad weather in Northeast Florida should subside substantially on Saturday.


Figure 1. Long range radar out of New Orleans.

The storm responsible for the heavy rains is now headed north-northwest, and should make landfall Saturday near the Louisiana/Mississippi border. The storm has developed a warm core at low levels, and NHC designated it Invest 90L late this morning. Latest visible satellite loops show a modest amount of heavy thunderstorm activity on the east side of the storm's circulation, but development is being hindered by dry air, and wind shear of 20 knots. Long range radar out of New Orleans (Figure 1) shows little organization or banding of the radar echoes. With only 24 hours to go until the system moves inland, it does not have enough time to develop into a depression. Since there will be strong winds from the west creating wind shear over the storm, plus dry air to the storm's west, most of the heavy rain should be confined to the east of the storm's center, along a stretch of coast from New Orleans to Pensacola. Rainfall totals of 2 - 4 inches can be expected.


Figure 2. Latest satellite image of the Gulf of Mexico storm.

I'll have an update Saturday.

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Jeff Masters
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1051. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 4:53 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
1
Member Since: July 15, 2006 Posts: 147 Comments: 41318
1053. Stormchaser2007 4:54 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting Category5hitsNewYork:
I know but I said eyewall like on radar. But yeah how fast do you think this one can blow up before 12 PM. I am also seeing some movement to the east.


I think we could see a 45mph TS if things continue the way they are now.
Member Since: June 9, 2007 Posts: 4 Comments: 15294
1054. nocaneindy 4:54 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
I never go out on a limb and predict
on here,but i think your right cchs,
it surely has the look on sat,
and with the wind obs it seems like
Ana has formed. If not Ana a strong t.d.
Now i guess we just wait and see if it
will persist until officially named.
Member Since: September 21, 2007 Posts: 34 Comments: 514
1055. Stormchaser2007 4:55 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
The TWO at 2am will be very interesting to say the least. Theres a possibility that a high chance of formation could be issued.
Member Since: June 9, 2007 Posts: 4 Comments: 15294
1056. HaboobsRsweet 4:56 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Guess the good news is the recon plane doesnt have to go far to start collecting data this time. But keep in mind if weather goes downhill then take off and landing weather becomes a problem.
Member Since: May 20, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1640
1058. F1or1d1an 4:57 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
I'm no met (not even a junior birdman met), but this is not tropical in nature. The only similarity between this and a tropical depression is that there's moisture. We've weathered plenty of them around here and it doesn't have any of the characteristics. There's no steady wind, there's no "pulsing" of rain, there's plenty of bread and milk at the grocery store.

It's just a big storm that happens to have some vorticity because it's associated with a low.
1059. Stormchaser2007 4:58 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
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1060. SevereHurricane 5:00 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
LMAO Keeper...
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1062. howarjo1943 5:01 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
30mph+ winds - check
closed surface low - check
persistent tstm activity near the COC - check

Not much doubt about it. The NHC will prob issue 5am advisories unless it craps out overnight.
Member Since: July 29, 2005 Posts: 3 Comments: 305
1063. taco2me61 5:01 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Its Funny that everybody even me did not see this coming.... I thought even a Sub-Tropical Storm but not much more..... Heck I even gave it a 30% chance of forming at all....

Sorry Guys I had no idea this would even happen this close to land....

Taco :0)
Member Since: July 7, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 2788
1064. Stormchaser2007 5:01 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting F1or1d1an:
I'm no met (not even a junior birdman met), but this is not tropical in nature. The only similarity between this and a tropical depression is that there's moisture. We've weathered plenty of them around here and it doesn't have any of the characteristics. There's no steady wind, there's no "pulsing" of rain, there's plenty of bread and milk at the grocery store.

It's just a big storm that happens to have some vorticity because it's associated with a low.


Wait so you're classifying this based on how your rain is falling? Thats doesnt sound very accurate nor reasonable.

This is more convincing.
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1065. HaboobsRsweet 5:02 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
I dunno, maybe it isnt tropical. Hard to tell with up upper air data right through it. But at the same time I have a hard time believing it is just your standard low. It may have been baroclinic in nature to start but now to me it has more tropical tendancies.
Member Since: May 20, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1640
1067. StormJunkie 5:03 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Flor1, I tend to agree with you, but could it be trying to reform under the convection?

I know radar can be deceiving sometimes when trying to determine a weak coc...
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1068. Stormchaser2007 5:03 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting Category5hitsNewYork:


I mean this thing is blowing up. And I can tell it is. I am looking at the radar and it is the LLC is collapsing and then reforming with a more strengthened structure. Are conditions conducive to see this blow up into a moderate Tropical storm.


If 90L had one more day over water then I'd say that there would be a chance at a moderate tropical storm. Although there just isnt enough time. Thats why a 45mph TS seems the strongest it will be able to get.
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1070. HaboobsRsweet 5:04 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
I thought it had a good chance of being a depression but I never thought it would come close to a TS. All week I saw a lot of people saying the water is too cool however the Gulf is at or above 26C, the critical value for tropical formation.
Member Since: May 20, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1640
1071. cchsweatherman 5:05 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting F1or1d1an:
I'm no met (not even a junior birdman met), but this is not tropical in nature. The only similarity between this and a tropical depression is that there's moisture. We've weathered plenty of them around here and it doesn't have any of the characteristics. There's no steady wind, there's no "pulsing" of rain, there's plenty of bread and milk at the grocery store.

It's just a big storm that happens to have some vorticity because it's associated with a low.


This is a tropical system since it has a closed surface circulation, warm core as illustrated by the Cyclone Phase Diagram below, and contains 30kt+ winds.

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1072. Cavin Rawlins 5:06 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
.
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1073. HaboobsRsweet 5:06 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
My wind chimes are making a lot of noise at a consistant rate. Does this count as a 1 minute average of strong winds? haha.
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1074. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 5:06 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting SevereHurricane:
LMAO Keeper...
think iam going to make that the 09 mascot for the season
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1075. StormJunkie 5:07 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Nice try 456, would have been cool if that worked...

So what are your thoughts on that radar?
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1076. HaboobsRsweet 5:08 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
One thing that was amazing with this system was how it fought off the dry air. There was a ton of dry air pushing in from the north and west side right after it moved into the Gulf. I thought that alone was going to kill any chances.
Member Since: May 20, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1640
1077. F1or1d1an 5:09 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Stormchaser - if you really *want* a tropical storm - that's fine.

I'm just telling you what I know by what I am experiencing tonight 2 miles north of Destin, FL. It's not scientific, I'll agree, but I would rather trust my instincts - they've served me well since I moved here in 1994.
1078. StormJunkie 5:09 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Real hard to find how this radar is not what it looks like...
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1079. HaboobsRsweet 5:09 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
think iam going to make that the 09 mascot for the season

Everytime I hit refresh, that is the first thing that pops up haha. Awesome pic. My wife walked by and just starting laughing.
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1080. HaboobsRsweet 5:12 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting F1or1d1an:
Stormchaser - if you really *want* a tropical storm - that's fine.

I'm just telling you what I know by what I am experiencing tonight 2 miles north of Destin, FL. It's not scientific, I'll agree, but I would rather trust my instincts - they've served me well since I moved here in 1994.


Well I am 15 miles east of Biloxi and I can tell you the rain we have had today has been that pulse rain. QUick short downpours with a short clearing for a few minutes followed by another wave. The clouds have been awesome. It goes pitch black for about five minutes then a few minutes later is sunny as if there hasnt been a cloud around all day. It is been back and forth since early this morning. Has a tropical feel outside to me.
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1081. StormJunkie 5:13 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
KOTG, that was pretty funny, got a good laugh out of it. Thanks...

Although I am not a big fan of those sat pics you have been posting. So many better ones out there.
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1082. Cavin Rawlins 5:14 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    


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1083. Tazmanian 5:15 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
is that a eye like thing on the rader??? that 46 posted??
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1084. F1or1d1an 5:15 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
1080 - point to you. I drove from NOLA to Niceville this afternoon - right through what you are talking about. But once I got east of Mobile, it was solid overcast with light mist to light rain. Never any hard rain or thunderstorms. I still have not seen a single thunderstorm come out of this thing (what ever you might call it).
1085. louisianaweatherguy 5:15 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
ok... so i'm confused... everyone take a look at the mobile radar and look at the swirl of heavy convection. Is that the Mid-Level circulation? Because I believe the low-level circulation is further to the SW. Is that right?
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1086. CybrTeddy 5:15 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
This is likely going to bypass the TD stage altogether. What time's the recon heading out tomorrow?
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1087. HaboobsRsweet 5:15 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
I the nhc update 2am eastern or central time? I dont know if I can stay awake until 2am central time. Been up since 4 this morning.
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1088. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 5:16 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
latest image 445z
**/**/**
INV/90L
MARK
28N/88W
nearly stationary or stationary

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1089. CybrTeddy 5:17 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting HaboobsRsweet:
I the nhc update 2am eastern or central time? I dont know if I can stay awake until 2am central time. Been up since 4 this morning.


2 am EDT. 1 AM CDT.
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1090. StormJunkie 5:17 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
456...Either that or one heck of a hook echo...But the wind directions are throwing me off.
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1091. Stormchaser2007 5:17 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Closeup:

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1092. CaneAddict 5:17 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
1043. cchsweatherman 4:46 AM GMT on May 23, 2009
Based upon the latest surface observations, cyclone phase analysis, and satelite imagery, its in this forecaster's opinion that Tropical Storm Ana has formed in the Northern Gulf.


And based on this forecasters opinion your right...I am going to stick my neck out and say it. Tropical Storm Ana has formed with 40-50 mph winds in the Northeastern Gulf....Although I believe it was Ana 2 or 3 hours ago.
Member Since: October 5, 2007 Posts: 3 Comments: 2151
1093. Cavin Rawlins 5:18 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting HaboobsRsweet:
I the nhc update 2am eastern or central time? I dont know if I can stay awake until 2am central time. Been up since 4 this morning.


EDT - Miami, FL
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076
1094. HaboobsRsweet 5:18 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
1084...we didnt get any heavy rain until 4ish here. All morning we just had the mistiness as you are saying. All I can tell you is my ditch is full of water and I have puddles in my yard.
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1095. StormJunkie 5:18 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting louisianaweatherguy:
ok... so i'm confused... everyone take a look at the mobile radar and look at the swirl of heavy convection. Is that the Mid-Level circulation? Because I believe the low-level circulation is further to the SW. Is that right?


I think you might be right, would explain the buoy data. Find it hard to believe that it could get better stacked in the short time it has.
Member Since: August 17, 2005 Posts: 26 Comments: 15240
1096. Drakoen 5:19 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Radar images and satellite images indicate to me that a 90L is on the verge of becoming a tropical depression if not one already.
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1097. Tazmanian 5:19 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
is that a eye like thing on the rader am looking at???


Quoting Weather456:
SJ,

Radar imagery is showing a tight, well define center clearly embedded in the strongest convection. This fits the criteria of a tropical depression to me, but I'll wait to see what the NHC says 2 am

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1098. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 5:19 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting StormJunkie:
KOTG, that was pretty funny, got a good laugh out of it. Thanks...

Although I am not a big fan of those sat pics you have been posting. So many better ones out there.
i use those one because its the closes time wise maybe 15 min behind to what i see on my tap page tap wont let me post those images so i use plymouth
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1099. Stormchaser2007 5:19 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quite a bit of lightning with 90L.
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1100. HurricaneKing 5:19 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
Quoting Stormchaser2007:
Closeup:



I believe that's at the midlevels at the moment with the surface center still to the south but trying to reform under the midlevel swirl.
Member Since: July 6, 2005 Posts: 71 Comments: 2432
1101. howarjo1943 5:20 AM GMT on May 23, 2009    
That circ seen on radar could be a mid level circulation, but it may also be the surface center trying to reform. With these disorganized systems you never know. Recon(and vis sat) would be nice.
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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