Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Igor an impressive Cat 4; 92L running out of time to develop; Julia forms
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 1:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010 +6
There are few sights in the natural world more impressive than a hurricane near maximum intensity. Hurricane Igor certainly fits that description this morning, as it flirts with Category 5 strength in the Central Atlantic. Igor's rapid intensification burst brought the mighty hurricane's winds to 150 mph, just shy of the 156 mph threshold for Category 5 status. Igor is the strongest hurricane in the Atlantic in three years. The last hurricane stronger that Igor was Category 5 Hurricane Felix of 2007.


Figure 1. Morning satellite image of Igor.

Intensity forecast for Igor
Wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots, and is expected to remain low for the next four days. Waters are warm, 28.5°C, and will warm to 29°C by Wednesday. Igor has moistened its environment enough to keep the dry air of the Saharan Air Layer (SAL) at bay. These conditions should allow Igor to remain at major hurricane status for the next four days. The hurricane will probably undergo one of the usual eyewall replacement cycles intense hurricanes commonly have, where the eyewall collapses and a new eyewall forms from an outer spiral band. This will weaken the hurricane by 10 - 20 mph when it occurs, but Igor will probably regain its lost intensity when the cycle completes. There's no evidence that an eyewall replacement cycle is imminent today, so Igor could potentially strengthen a bit more. However, I believe Igor has peaked, and will not reach Category 5 status today. By Saturday, when Igor should be nearing Bermuda, the trough of low pressure steering Igor northwestwards should bring moderate wind shear of 10 - 20 knots to the storm, weakening it.

Track forecast for Igor
The track forecast for Igor remains unchanged. Igor will move west under the influence of a strong ridge of high pressure until Tuesday morning, then turn more to the west-northwest then northwest in response to the steering influence of a broad trough of low pressure moving across the Western Atlantic on Tuesday and Wednesday. This should allow Igor to pass several hundred miles to the northeast of the Lesser Antilles. In the longer range, Igor appears likely to be a threat to Bermuda, and that island can expect tropical storm force winds as early as Friday. Igor does have a small chance of making landfall on the U.S. East Coast or Canada. Climatology shows that about 15% of all tropical cyclones that have existed at Igor's current position have gone on to hit the U.S. East Coast; these odds are about 10% for Bermuda and 10% for Canada. The forecast steering pattern for the period 5 - 10 days from now from the ECMWF and GFS models shows a continuation of the pattern we've seen all hurricane season, with regular strong troughs of low pressure moving off the U.S. East Coast. This pattern favors Igor eventually recurving out to sea without hitting the U.S. or Canada. While the trough expected to recurve Igor out to sea is not as sharp as the troughs that recurved Danielle, Earl, and Fiona, it should still be strong enough to keep Igor from hitting the U.S. However, Newfoundland, Canada could see a close pass. An examination of the tracks of the ten major September hurricanes that have passed closest to Igor's current location (Figure 2) reveals that one of these hurricanes went on to hit the Bahamas and Florida as a Category 2 storm, and another hit Newfoundland as a Category 1 storm. The other eight missed land. One wild card may be the intensification of Julia behind Igor. If Julia develops into a hurricane and moves close to Igor, as some of the models are suggesting, the two hurricanes could interact, affecting the track of Igor unpredictable ways. However, it currently appears the Julia will be much weaker than Igor, and will probably have little impact on her big brother's track.


Figure 2. Historical plot of the tracks of the ten major September hurricanes that have passed closest to Igor's current location.

Caribbean disturbance 92L
Tropical disturbance (92L) over the Central Caribbean, centered about 100 miles south of Jamaica, has changed little over the past day. The storm remains a threat to develop into a tropical depression, but time is running out for it to do so. Satellite loops this morning do not show a surface circulation, but 92L does have a moderate area of intense disorganized thunderstorms that are bringing heavy rain to Jamaica this morning. Kingston, Jamaica has picked up 0.67" of rain thus far this morning from 92L.


Figure 3. Morning satellite image of 92L.

Forecast for 92L
Wind shear over 92L is low, 5 - 10 knots, and is expected to remain low to moderate for the next five days. The waters beneath are hot, 29.8°C, and these warm waters extend to great depth. Water vapor satellite loops show a large area of dry air lies to the north and west of 92L, and this dry air has been interfering with development of 92L. NHC is putting the odds of 92L developing into a tropical depression by Wednesday at 40%. Given the current disorganized state of 92L, it would be difficult for it to intensify quickly enough to become any stronger than a tropical storm with 50 mph winds by Wednesday, when it will move over Belize and Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. Once 92L crosses the Yucatan, the ridge of high pressure steering it is expected to remain in place, forcing 92L to a second landfall in Mexico several hundred miles south of the Texas border. A Hurricane Hunter aircraft is scheduled to investigate 92L this afternoon.

Julia
Tropical Storm Julia formed between the Cape Verdes Islands and coast of Africa yesterday, bringing some heavy rain squalls and gusty winds to the Cape Verdes, but no sustained winds of tropical storm force. Julia is headed northwest, out to sea, and it is unlikely that this storm will trouble any land areas . Shear is low enough over the next few days to allow Julia to become a hurricane, but shear will rise sharply 4 - 5 days from now, limiting the potential for Julia to become a major hurricane.

Elsewhere in the tropics
The NOGAPS model is calling for a new tropical depression to form off the coast of Africa 6 - 7 days from now.

Next post
I'll have a new post Tuesday morning.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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401. atmoaggie 3:42 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting StormJunkie:


point taken, not quite conceded but taken. I would argue there is even a little improvement in the 96-144hr range. But in 2003 even 72hr forecasts could be pretty subjective.
2003 was the second best year in 96 and 120 hour forecasts (combined) since they started going that far out. 2007 and 2008 were each the best in different categories.

But the skill for the year 2003 was far better for long range forecasts than the average of the last 5 years.



Why?

Was it the tracks of the systems?

Nothing here screams "easier to forecast than most years".

Not sure about the reasons myself. But, I can accept that our longer-range track forecasts have not improved significantly over the last 7 years.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
402. NOLALawyer 3:42 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting Ryuujin:
Lol.

IKE wont see this, because he has me on ignore..but for the rest of you. To make it clear. IKE only posts things that Doomcast storms. He never will post anything that disagrees with his idea that a storm will never hit land, or never be a threat to CONUS. It's just how he is. Bascially, StormW and Levi both show that there is the possibility (And Reedzone as well) of Igor tracking further west, which throws the US in the realm of possible impact.

I always like to err on the side of caution in any sort of weather situation. As much as we like to think we have a handle on how storms act and react with the environment, we truly have no idea. That's why its called Forecasting and not Predicting, or Telling.


He won't see me quote it either since I am also on his quite sizeable ignore list, but you are quite right.
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403. StormJunkie 3:43 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting reedzone:
While I respect Bob, I have to disagree with a 100% confidence of a no USA impact. It's still far out there and things can change. I still give it a 50% for a recurvature. He's a great guy, but I think he's jumping the gun a bit, the USA is not out of the question just yet.


I'll agree 100% is a bit high...99-98% would be a more accurate statement imho.
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405. reedzone 3:44 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting IKE:


I agree...sometimes the pct. given by the NHC implied an almost certainty of something happening.

I guess the downward MJO has hampered 92L....



Ya know, you could be right. This is probably why 92L just can't get going. Good observation Ike.
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406. beell 3:44 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Let's take a small baby step here on pinning down a forecast. Yes it is early. Yes, things could change-but:

Right now, based on whatever methods/models/sats/indexes, intuition,goat bones, 8-Ball, wive's tales, etc, etc, will Igor stray outside the current 5 day cone at any point between now and 8AM EDT Saturday?

Y/N?

I'd say no.



Link
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407. Drakoen 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting TheDawnAwakening:
Drak, impressive can't say enough for Igor's appearance and intensity. Do you see a possible low level low trying to get going with 92L? I believe it is broad and ill defined but something is trying to develop, it could just be a surface trough as the pros have been calling it.


I still think it's possible. Whatever is down there now is ill-defined. The system will be moving into warmer waters with greater depth which should help it maintain convection.
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408. hydrus 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting 7544:


agree looks like he has a few tricks to play on all of us wait watch and see but as ive been saying this one likes going west lol
And a little south of west on the last few frames..IGOR will defy all models and educated forecasts to become..."The most interesting storm in the world"...:)
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14314
409. rareaire 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting 1992Andrew:
This website is more akin to a virtual inquisition than one focused on the tropics. Troll or not, it sure does take a lot of space to point out the obvious in a forum supposedly about the tropics.

Anyway, here's my two cents on what's going here.

Storm W and Levi and Reed are often at odds with the models because they enjoy contemplating on the "what if" scenarios. They are simply pointing out a possibility, supporting their opinions with actual meteorological evidence. No where in the text do they disagree with the models outright. They are simply engaging in fanciful thinking because it can happen. They are gambling their free time with the possibilities.

All of you who accuse the seasoned mets on this thing of wishcasting are nothing but plundering troops. Understand the point of this blog.





very well said!!!
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410. CosmicEvents 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting reedzone:
While I respect Bob, I have to disagree with a 100% confidence of a no USA impact. It's still far out there and things can change. I still give it a 50% for a recurvature. He's a great guy, but I think he's jumping the gun a bit, the USA is not out of the question just yet.
I'm not sure that he said 100%. If he did, I'd disagree, as I give it a 99.9999% of missing the CONUS. That's his opinion, not mine, gleaned from years of reading him and his thought that there are no 100% certainties, but we can get close. But, I commend you for taking the time to view his blog. That's all my original post suggested. Just take 10 minutes for a "different" point of view. Agree or disagree it adds to your knowledge base. I read the blogs by Levi and Storm, and read your words. Again, agree or disagree, it adds to my knowledge.
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411. bird72 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting SeaMule:
HEADING WWWSW

definite now. a tad south of west.

will strike the US....Puerto Rico will be in panic stage within 24 hours, once they see this thing barreling west with no northern component to speak of.

remember GILBERT?

storm.....why did Gilbert...a bigeeeee....head on a straight line? Is Igor gonna do this?


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412. TheDawnAwakening 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
While I agree that in the next 24 hours his current motion will or should continue to occur, he should begin to move towards the WNW and NW afterwards as the ridge weakens do to the trough of low pressure moving through the western Atlantic Ocean.

Drak, you do have tremendous obs skills and forecasting skills, amazing job you do. Keep it up, not a lot of people have the potential you and Levi do.
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413. 1900hurricane 3:45 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting atmoaggie:
Geez, thanks for the vote of confidence, butWhat the heck does this mean? The track/steering? The thermodynamics?

As a default, I'll say, yeah, non-linear. (Name one thing in meteorology that is)

I'd say chaotic.
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414. weathermanwannabe 3:46 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
406. beell 11:44 AM EDT on September 13, 2010

Thank You............ :)
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415. StormJunkie 3:46 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Interesting atmo and great supporting data. I would have thought we had improved a little since then. Point conceded. DJ 1 atmo 1 SJ 0
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416. markot 3:46 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
I SAIDplz read the nhc discussion LOW CONFIDENCE....
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417. RufusBaker 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Hey first or all according to the models Igor should have benn heading atleast WNW by now. There is no sign of that and he continues to track a little south of west. You island people better start watching and paying attention he is barroling towards now!!
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418. stormchaserDAZ 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting bird72:
i belive igors going to take a similar route to what gilbert did
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419. 7544 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
so if igor still goes wsw in the next 8 bhours anyone thinks we could see the cone shift to the left
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420. StormJunkie 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Ok, off to do some homework. Y'all have fun and play safe. I'll check in later.
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421. Drakoen 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting TheDawnAwakening:
While I agree that in the next 24 hours his current motion will or should continue to occur, he should begin to move towards the WNW and NW afterwards as the ridge weakens do to the trough of low pressure moving through the western Atlantic Ocean.

Drak, you do have tremendous obs skills and forecasting skills, amazing job you do. Keep it up, not a lot of people have the potential you and Levi do.


Thank You
Member Since: October 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
422. Chucktown 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting weatherwart:


Okay I looked at your link and considered what you've written. First, the storm looks very impressive to me, but I'm not a met. I'm a nurse, so, there's that.

Second, yes Earl turned, although that was a pretty fine needle he threaded and the jury is still out on Igor, so neither of us can say just yet, right?

Third, I'll take your word that you've never heard the term "pumping the ridge" before. I googled the term and it does seem to be in the lexicon now.

Finally, in my limited time in the world of weather, there seems always to be disgreements between those who forecast (and discuss) weather. None of these forecasts are perfect, I think you'll agree. Perhaps this is just one of those times where you and StormW disagree.

The good news is that those who want to learn, like me, get something from all of you. So, thank you for that.



Hey nothing against Storm, he's just as knowledgeable. I respect his opinions, just something I don't agree with him on. It's the scientific side of me. To me, its just a phrase thrown around on this blog to explain why a system isn't turning.
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423. Drakoen 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting TheDawnAwakening:
While I agree that in the next 24 hours his current motion will or should continue to occur, he should begin to move towards the WNW and NW afterwards as the ridge weakens do to the trough of low pressure moving through the western Atlantic Ocean.

Drak, you do have tremendous obs skills and forecasting skills, amazing job you do. Keep it up, not a lot of people have the potential you and Levi do.


Thank You
Member Since: October 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
424. belizewunderfan 3:47 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting KanKunKid:


Nope! I got it covered. 92L is not gonna become a hurricane on MY watch! No sir. I'm ready for it. With 2 of the most powerful hot air blow dryers in the world, the Tornado 2000, it could blow it's head clean off!

So 92L, do ya feel lucky? Well?


Do ya PUNK??


Let me know if you need another one - I can send it to Chetumal for you! Let's hope 92L does not get its act together!
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425. Jax82 3:48 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Igor is not that far off his tracks. I think he will will be above 18N by the time he gets to 52W. He is going to wobble and try to trick us because he is so strong, but looking at the WV loop he should start going more North of West by the end of the day.
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426. bird72 3:48 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting CosmicEvents:
Just take 10 minutes for a "different" point of view. Agree or disagree it adds to your knowledge base.

How saying the same as the NHC, is another point of view?
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427. TheDawnAwakening 3:48 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
I agree Drak it certaintly is ill defined. Needs to pull away from Jamaica before any more robust development could occur.

Igor is definitely a tough storm to develop, but within this area of Latitude and Longitude models have a tough time determining when the northward turn is to occur, once as the storm nears the Bahamas or north of the Greater Antilles islands, they become more accurate with a higher then average forecast confidence.
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429. angiest 3:49 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting atmoaggie:
Geez, thanks for the vote of confidence, butWhat the heck does this mean? The track/steering? The thermodynamics?

As a default, I'll say, yeah, non-linear. (Name one thing in meteorology that is)


Non-linear dynamics is the more technical name for "chaos." In extremely simply terms, 1+1=2 is linear. That is, it is absolutely predictable. You always know with 100% certainty what the outcome is. However, what if 1+1=[1.9..2.03]? And what if that answer is somewhere different in that range each time? How are you going to wind up with the "correct" answer with any certainty? I am making gross simplifications here, but consider something as complex as the ocean-atmosphere system in which tropical cyclones exist. How do you account for all the variables? It all factors into track and intensity forecasts, and as we see there are plenty of things our models do not pick up on when it comes to forecasting intensity. And while track forecasts are definitely better, the assumptions built into the models may not always be correct, and we also don't know what small-scale features can have an impact (a butterfly opening its winds in Tokyo causing rain in NYC a week later).

Are any global models initializing Igor with the correct intensity? If not, how is that affecting their track forecasts? How many of the "hurricane" models like GFDL and HWRF are using this data as their initialization?
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430. JamesSA 3:50 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting RecordSeason:
205:

It isn't a typical wobble. This has been a very gradual drift that has been taking place all day yesterday and today.

you can see what is causing this by studying a combination of these, but the short is, there is a "mini-peak" in the ridge that is exerting a southerly influence on Igor due to it's orientation. Unfortunately, this ridge is also building in north of Igor between Igor and the trough, which is preventing Igor from turning north, or for that matter, even preventing Igor from resuming a "true" west motion.

This is almost exactly what I expected last night. Additionally, from what I see, the trend may even be stronger than I hinted at last night, and Igor may drift several more tenths to the south today, depending on exactly how the ridge builds and retreats...

LSU ESL Low clouds

and

NOAA SSD Water Vapor Loop

Now look at the "stray" patch of thunderstorms near 20N 59W. This is "embedded" under the heart of the ridge, and you can look at the cloud motion just east of this and with close inspection, you can find pressure gradients within the clouds. All of it hooks south-west, and then wraps around the 20N 59W point.


This is absolutely critical, because every tenth of a degree Igor drifts farther south, the more of the southerly component of steering it will feel (for 24 to 36 hours,) as it gets "jammed" under the ridge.

I have to agree with your analysis. That ridge is right in his face, where the trough that is hoped for as a savior seems a bit too weak and far north to inspire much confidence.

It seems that those who are in harms way in case of a missed or too late turn ought to be nervously rechecking their preparations, just in case. We shall see.
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431. DaytonaBeachWatcher 3:50 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting TheDawnAwakening:
While I agree that in the next 24 hours his current motion will or should continue to occur, he should begin to move towards the WNW and NW afterwards as the ridge weakens do to the trough of low pressure moving through the western Atlantic Ocean.

Drak, you do have tremendous obs skills and forecasting skills, amazing job you do. Keep it up, not a lot of people have the potential you and Levi do.


I agree with both points
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432. bird72 3:50 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting Jax82:
He is going to wobble and try to trick us

That's you scientific analysis of Igor?lol
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433. reedzone 3:51 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting CosmicEvents:
I'm not sure that he said 100%. If he did, I'd disagree, as I give it a 99.9999% of missing the CONUS. That's his opinion, not mine, gleaned from years of reading him and his thought that there are no 100% certainties, but we can get close. But, I commend you for taking the time to view his blog. That's all my original post suggested. Just take 10 minutes for a "different" point of view. Agree or disagree it adds to your knowledge base. I read the blogs by Levi and Storm, and read your words. Again, agree or disagree, it adds to my knowledge.


I think Bob is great at forecasting storms, I just think he's putting too much confidence in a forecast the NHC has very low confidence in. I read Levis, StormWs, and Bobs blog. I also like to view jasoniscoolman videos for comedy :P, with his updates along with Lady Gaga music.
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434. SeaMule 3:51 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Igor a cat 5 now. no wobble since the CDO is so round. Igor is also strengthening...pulling in bathtub water right now.

the only thing that will stop it now is Puerto Rico....sad to say......
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435. hurricanejunky 3:51 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
I find it annoying that satellite interpretation is deemed "west-casting". It is what it is...Igor has and continues to move south of the NHC forecast points. NHC has been north-casting all season. I don't know what the current movement means in terms of the long term forecast but sometimes these storms are still unpredictable even for the models.
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436. islander101010 3:51 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
igor going to do a loop? looks like the ex tropical storm has found a better place in the epac
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437. serialteg 3:52 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting TheDawnAwakening:
I agree Drak it certaintly is ill defined. Needs to pull away from Jamaica before any more robust development could occur.

Igor is definitely a tough storm to develop, but within this area of Latitude and Longitude models have a tough time determining when the northward turn is to occur, once as the storm nears the Bahamas or north of the Greater Antilles islands, they become more accurate with a higher then average forecast confidence.


that is a tad too late for us islanders
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438. moonlightcowboy 3:52 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting beell:
Let's take a small baby step here on pinning down a forecast. Yes it is early. Yes, things could change-but:

Right now, based on whatever methods/models/sats/indexes, intuition,goat bones, 8-Ball, wive's tales, etc, etc, will Igor stray outside the current 5 day cone at any point between now and 8AM EDT Saturday?

Y/N?

I'd say no.



Link



Beell, was that supposed to be "wives tales" or "wise tails?" I'm confused! ;(

But, ummmm, you're likely right. Thanks.
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439. tkeith 3:53 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting reedzone:


I think Bob is great at forecasting storms, I just think he's putting too much confidence in a forecast the NHC has very low confidence in. I read Levis, StormWs, and Bobs blog. I also like to view jasoniscoolman videos for comedy :P, with his updates along with Lady Gaga music.


those videos can be a little "fishy" sometimes...
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440. TheDawnAwakening 3:53 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
No problem Drak and take advantage of your opportunities too.



Here is the box I am talking about. Hurricanes in this box at some point, models have had a hard time forecasting 5 day forecast tracks for these systems. The easy storms that come right to mind are Ike 2008, Earl and Igor of 2010. Bill might be a case as well of 2009, however he was pretty much forecasted very well by the GFS.
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441. firematt255 3:54 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting beell:
Let's take a small baby step here on pinning down a forecast. Yes it is early. Yes, things could change-but:

Right now, based on whatever methods/models/sats/indexes, intuition,goat bones, 8-Ball, wive's tales, etc, etc, will Igor stray outside the current 5 day cone at any point between now and 8AM EDT Saturday?

Y/N?

I'd say no.



Link

yes
Member Since: August 14, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 52
442. kimoskee 3:54 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
It may not be raining where I am but
Go-Jamaica.com says...

Several roadways across Jamaica are now blocked following overnight heavy rains.

The National Works Agency (NWA) says the Bog Walk Gorge in St. Catherine is now closed. As such motorists are being asked to use the alternative Barry or Sligoville roads.

The agency is also advising motorists to drive carefully along the Junction Main Road as there are land slippages along the roadway.

The John Hill Bridge to Free Town roadway in Clarendon is also flooded.

Several schools are also closed.
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443. PensacolaDoug 3:54 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Mornin' HJ. Don't take any gruff..
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444. CJ5 3:54 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting reedzone:
I will say that Florida to South Carolina is in the clear, nothing to worry there. Though from North Carolina northward to Canada, similar situation with Earl. Nothing to panic about, just to eye it for now.


Irresponsible post at this point.
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445. stormchaserDAZ 3:55 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting SeaMule:
Igor a cat 5 now. no wobble since the CDO is so round. Igor is also strengthening...pulling in bathtub water right now.

the only thing that will stop it now is Puerto Rico....sad to say......
i agree with you sadly ive belived this since core.... 11:00 am gmt ( thats the time in london were i live i belived hed stay true to a westen coruse and 6 hours later hes done everything ive said he would in movement
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447. stormpetrol 3:57 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting hydrus:
And a little south of west on the last few frames..IGOR will defy all models and educated forecasts to become..."The most interesting storm in the world"...:)

Be careful how you use the words "defy all models" , I used those same words with Earl and got jumped on by some here like tics on a bull :)BTW I agree with you 100%
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448. atmoaggie 3:57 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting angiest:


Non-linear dynamics is the more technical name for "chaos." In extremely simply terms, 1+1=2 is linear. That is, it is absolutely predictable. You always know with 100% certainty what the outcome is. However, what if 1+1=[1.9..2.03]? And what if that answer is somewhere different in that range each time? How are you going to wind up with the "correct" answer with any certainty? I am making gross simplifications here, but consider something as complex as the ocean-atmosphere system in which tropical cyclones exist. How do you account for all the variables? It all factors into track and intensity forecasts, and as we see there are plenty of things our models do not pick up on when it comes to forecasting intensity. And while track forecasts are definitely better, the assumptions built into the models may not always be correct, and we also don't know what small-scale features can have an impact (a butterfly opening its winds in Tokyo causing rain in NYC a week later).

Are any global models initializing Igor with the correct intensity? If not, how is that affecting their track forecasts? How many of the "hurricane" models like GFDL and HWRF are using this data as their initialization?
In true tropical models, there is a function called vortex bogussing.

So, yeah, GFS does the best it can with it's resolution, generates a first starting point for GFDL, steering winds (which it and other global models are best for), etc. But when GFDL is run, bogussing is used to insert the storm's parameters (RMW, windfield data, radii of winds, pressure deficit, beta shape parameter (steepness of the pressure gradient), etc.)

The bogussing functions started in the mid 90s.
Member Since: August 16, 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
449. Halon056 3:57 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Quoting tacoman:
bob is the BEST FORCASTER on this blog...he said there is no chance of igor hitting the us...i agree with bob and he also said julia will go out to sea..bob knows what he is talking about he hasnt been wrong anytime this season like other model forcasters who post blogs...congrat bob thank GOD we have you here...a job well done...


Whoa! Isnt that akin to Idol worship?
Member Since: July 16, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 349
450. PensacolaDoug 3:58 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
Looks like IGOR's eye feature has contracted. Can you say Cat5!
Member Since: July 25, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 4828
451. xCat6Hurricane 3:58 PM GMT on September 13, 2010    
igor is almost cat 5 status, those poor fish.
Member Since: July 19, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 111

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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