TD 8 forms; 97L a potential threat to the Caribbean and U.S.

By: Dr. Jeff Masters , 3:30 PM GMT on August 19, 2011

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Tropical Depression Eight formed last night near the coast of Honduras, and is headed westwards towards a landfall in Belize on Saturday. TD 8 is a small storm, so will impact a relatively small area of northern Honduras, northern Guatemala, all of Belize, and southern portions of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. TD 8 has just enough room between its center and the coast of Honduras to intensify into a moderate strength tropical storm with 50 - 60 mph winds before landfall. It is very unlikely TD8 has the time or room to intensify into a hurricane; NHC gave the storm just a 7% chance of making it to hurricane strength in their 11am EDT wind probability forecast. Should TD8 make it to tropical storm strength, it would be called Harvey.


Figure 1. Morning satellite image of TD 8.

Invest 97L likely to become a tropical storm next week, could threaten the U.S.
A tropical wave near 14°N 48°W, about 800 miles east of the Lesser Antilles Islands, is moving westward near 20 mph. This wave, designated Invest 97L by NHC yesterday, has seen a marked increase in its heavy thunderstorm activity this morning, but dry air to the north and west is slowing development. An impressive amount of large-scale spin is obvious in visible satellite loops, but the storm is at least a day away from forming a well-defined surface circulation. Ocean temperatures are about 28.5°C, about 2°C above the threshold needed to support a tropical storm, and wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots.


Figure 2. Morning satellite image of the tropical wave 97L.

The computer models have shown an unusual amount of agreement in developing 97L over the past few days, and all the ingredients seem to be in place for a tropical storm to form by Monday or Tuesday as 97L crosses the Northeast Caribbean. The atmosphere is expected to be moister over the Caribbean, wind shear will remain a low 5 - 10 knots, and sea surface temperatures will increase to near 29°C. The main impediment for development will likely be two-fold: too much dry, stable air, and proximity to land.

As seen in Figure 3, there has been an unusual amount of dry, stable air in the Atlantic this year, due to a combination of dry air from Africa, and upper-atmosphere dynamics creating large areas of sinking air that dry as they warm and approach the surface. This stable air has been largely responsible for the fact that none of our seven tropical storms so far this year has made it to hurricane strength, despite the presence of sea surface temperatures that are the 3rd warmest on record across the tropical Atlantic. Tropical Storm Emily in early August encountered problems with dry air when it crossed the Northeast Caribbean, and 97L may have similar difficulties.


Figure 3. Vertical instability of the atmosphere during 2011 in the Caribbean (left) and tropical Atlantic between the Lesser Antilles Islands and coast of Africa (right.) The instability is plotted in °C, as a difference in temperature from near the surface to the upper atmosphere. Thunderstorms grow much more readily when vertical instability is high. Observed vertical instability (blue line) has been much lower than the climatological average from previous years (black line), due to an unusual amount of dry air in the atmosphere, inhibiting tropical storm development this year. Image credit: NOAA/CIRA.

Encounters with land will be another potential major problem for 97L. Most of the computer models take 97L near or over Puerto Rico Sunday night, then very close to or over mountainous Hispaniola Monday night through Tuesday. It is unlikely that 97L will be stronger than a 55 mph tropical storm when it encounters these islands, and passage over the islands could severely disrupt the storm. However, if 97L takes a path just south or north of Hispaniola, the potential exists for the storm to intensify into a hurricane.

There will be moderate wind shear of 10 - 20 knots to the north of the islands early next week, so a path just to the south of the Dominican Republic and Haiti would be more likely to let 97L intensify into a hurricane. A west-northwest motion is likely for 97L through Wednesday, which would bring the storm to the vicinity of Jamaica-Central Cuba-the Central Bahamas on Wednesday. On Wednesday and Thursday, the models agree that a trough of low pressure will dip down over the Eastern U.S., which is likely to turn 97L to the north. The exact timing and strength of this trough varies considerably from model to model, and will be critical in determining where and when 97L will turn to the north. The best model for predicting the timing and strength of such troughs over the past two years has been the ECMWF (European Center model), and this model currently brings 97L into the Florida Keys on Thursday night next week. You can view ECMWF forecasts on our wundermap with the model layer turned on. The European Center does not permit public display of tropical storm positions from their hurricane tracking module of their model, so we are unable to put ECMWF forecasts on our computer model forecast page that plots positions from the other major models.

Remember that a 7-day forecast by even our best model will be off by an average of over 700 miles, so it is too early to tell what part of the U.S. might be most at risk from a strike by 97L. This weekend would be a good time to go over your hurricane preparedness.


Figure 4. Morning satellite image of Invest 98L off the coast of Africa.

Invest 98L near the coast of Africa
A tropical wave near the coast of Africa, a few hundred miles southeast of the Cape Verde Islands, is moving west to west-northwestward at 10 - 15 mph. This wave, designated Invest 98L by NHC yesterday, is large and well-organized, with a modest amount of spin and heavy thunderstorm activity. 98L will bring strong, gusty winds and heavy rains to the Cape Verde Islands today and Saturday as the storm skirts to the south. So far this morning, top sustained winds measured in the islands were 24 mph at Mindelo. Water temperatures are warm, near 27 - 28°C, and wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots, so 98L should continue to organize today. NHC gave the storm a 50% chance of developing into a tropical depression in their 8am advisory. Once 98L passes to the west of the Cape Verde Islands, it has a long stretch of ocean to cross before it could affect any other land areas. Approximately 70 - 80% of all tropical cyclones that pass this close to the Cape Verde Islands end up curving out to sea and not affecting any other land areas, according to Dr. Bob Hart's excellent historical probability of landfall charts. The latest set of long-range model runs go along with this idea, but it is too early to be confident of this.

Jeff Masters

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2041. wn1995
NHC intermediate adv put Harvey at 50 mph.
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2040. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
Quoting kmanislander:
hello friend best be considering an init to you're hurricane plan
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Quoting violet312s:


If you are new here never mention "Carolinas" as a plural. Presslord is very proud to be from SC. I on the other hand, proud to be a cheesehead relocated to here in NC.

Handing Press a Fresca or other suitable beverage.


+1

Hey, neighbor!
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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
POSS T.C.F.A.
XX/INV/98L/99L


Which one? Lol.
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Quoting weatherh98:


could be contaminatd they have to find another one for them to put it that high
gotcha, thank you!
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8:00 PM EDT Fri Aug 19
Location: 16.1N 84.6W
Max sustained: 50 mph
Moving: W at 9 mph
Min pressure: 998 mb
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 32553
2035. Grothar
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


double that and you'll know as many as Gro and 8 time more than me.


Even though I was born in the US. English is my 3rd languange, and the hardest to learn. Very strange language. The only good thing about it is that the vocabulary is so large, one can insult people in many more ways than can be accomplished in other languages. It has been quite useful on the blog.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26949
Quoting HimacaneBrees:


I'm stocked up on beer and cokes. will that work?


Hard liquor keeps better.
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As the excitement grows, so does the intolerance. Last time I checked, there was this handy thing called the 1st Amendment, and this other handy thing called free will. Everyone here has the right to post within guidelines or quote whomever they like.

Just my two cents.
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2031. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
POSS T.C.F.A.
XX/INV/98L/99L
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2030. Relix
97L is looking very good structure wise. Just needs convection and proof that we have a surface circulation
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Quoting Grothar:
Thanks for the answers on the milk jugs. I was half joking because it came up the other night, and it really is true about the milk protein. People never get enough water in their preparation. How many times have we seen thousands of people lining up for water. It is essential. You can live a long time without food, but not water; especially the young and the elderly. If your area is threatened make sure you have a sufficient supply of at least a week or more.


I'm stocked up on beer and cokes. will that work?
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2028. wn1995
Quoting weatherh98:


need another one like that


Thats the vortex message, though.
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Quoting Dirtleg:



Two related words... Naked drunk



And I thought I was the only one with that reaction to Old Crow...

:)
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Sorry repeat of vortex fix, deleted!

Member Since: April 29, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 8120
Quoting kmanislander:
Impressive lil' updraft going off there.
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holy we cows i did not even think we where that close too 8pm when i look at my clock lol
Member Since: May 21, 2006 Posts: 5091 Comments: 115376
2023. WxLogic
Quoting kmanislander:
Watch the models jump to the North after this LOL



You never know...
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Quoting CybrTeddy:
Maximum Surface (likely estimated by SFMR) Wind Outbound: 51kts (~ 58.7mph) in the quadrant at 0:93


need another one like that
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
Quoting PrivateIdaho:


double that and you'll know as many as Gro and 8 time more than me.
I would love to learn Chinese i started at it but then i stopped working with Chinese people so I'll leave it at 4
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Quoting CybrTeddy:
Maximum Surface (likely estimated by SFMR) Wind Outbound: 51kts (~ 58.7mph) in the quadrant at 0:93
Impressive.
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97L firing new convection right about at the center. Look at the lastest frame!
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2017. Grothar
Thanks for the answers on the milk jugs. I was half joking because it came up the other night, and it really is true about the milk protein. People never get enough water in their preparation. How many times have we seen thousands of people lining up for water. It is essential. You can live a long time without food, but not water; especially the young and the elderly. If your area is threatened make sure you have a sufficient supply of at least a week or more.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26949
2016. Dirtleg
Quoting SavannahStorm:



Two Words:

Old Crow



Two related words... Naked drunk
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For me..when Taz posts, I perfectly understand what he's saying....always makes sense to me and I'm pretty sure everyone else does too.....so where's the problem? Just my 2 cents....back to the shadows......

I'm a Taz FANactic!!!! :)
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Quoting kmanislander:
Watch the models jump to the North after this LOL


97L looks more like a TD already. Chances should to up to 70 to 90% at the 8 PM TWO
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Maximum Surface (likely estimated by SFMR) Wind Outbound: 51kts (~ 58.7mph) in the quadrant at 0:93
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Quoting Patrap:


There's cheap Bourbon ?





Two Words:

Old Crow
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2011. GetReal
Product: Air Force Vortex Message (URNT12 KNHC)
Transmitted: 19th day of the month at 23:43Z
Aircraft: Air Force Aircraft (Last 3 digits of the tail number are 308)
Storm Number & Year: 08L in 2011
Storm Name: Harvey (flight in the North Atlantic basin)
Mission Number: 4
Observation Number: 07
A. Time of Center Fix: 19th day of the month at 23:27:10Z
B. Center Fix Coordinates: 16°05'N 84°36'W (16.0833N 84.6W)
B. Center Fix Location: 257 miles (413 km) to the ESE (112°) from Belize City, Belize.
C. Minimum Height at Standard Level: 1,424m (4,672ft) at 850mb
D. Estimated (by SFMR or visually) Maximum Surface Wind: 31kts (~ 35.7mph)
E. Location of the Estimated Maximum Surface Wind: 34 nautical miles (39 statute miles) to the WNW/NW (304°) of center fix
F. Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: From 54° at 30kts (From the NE at ~ 34.5mph)
G. Location of Maximum Flight Level Wind Inbound: 71 nautical miles (82 statute miles) to the NNW (328°) of center fix
H. Minimum Sea Level Pressure: 999mb (29.50 inHg)
I. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Outside Eye: 17°C (63°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,529m (5,016ft)
J. Maximum Flight Level Temp & Pressure Altitude Inside Eye: 20°C (68°F) at a pressure alt. of 1,526m (5,007ft)
K. Dewpoint Temp & Sea Surface Temp (collected at same location as temp inside eye): Not Available
L. Eye Character: Not Available
M. Eye Shape: Not Available
N. Fix Determined By: Penetration, Wind, Pressure and Temperature
N. Fix Levels (sfc and flt lvl centers are within 5nm of each other): Surface and 850mb
O. Navigation Fix Accuracy: 0.02 nautical miles
O. Meteorological Accuracy: 1 nautical mile
Remarks Section - Remarks That Were Decoded...
Maximum Wind Outbound: 34kts (~ 39.1mph) in the east quadrant at 23:28:00Z
Maximum Flight Level Wind: 34kts (~ 39.1mph) in the east quadrant at 23:28:00Z
Maximum Surface (likely estimated by SFMR) Wind Outbound: 51kts (~ 58.7mph) in the quadrant at 0:93
Remarks Section - Additional Remarks...
MAX SFC WND OUTBOUND 51 KTS, 093/02 NM FM FL CNTR, E QUAD, 23:27:40Z
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Quoting belizeit:
I speak 4 languages


double that and you'll know as many as Gro and 8 time more than me.
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Pressure down to 999
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Quoting aislinnpaps:


I use the fifty gallon plastic storage containers to store water for the dogs. Is there a problem with them? I never thought about things leaching out.
I think the 50 Gal. containers are designed for storing water. A lot were used here after Ivan.
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Watch the models jump to the North after this LOL

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Hi all,

Long time lurker, just wondering what is my chances of 97L giving me some rain in the Upstate of SC (Greer). The worst part of the storm minus the damage it will do, is that its gonna hit on my days off :( Oh well, back to lurking.

Lee
(So need to get a new handle)
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Vortex message has Harvey at 999mb. Impressive strengthening.
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Quoting AegirsGal:
58.6 mph (I know the data is suspect) measured close to coc?


could be contaminatd they have to find another one for them to put it that high
Member Since: June 17, 2011 Posts: 11 Comments: 6539
Reguarding aislinnpaps post: I am in the same boat, sorta, I live in Navarre FL, and my husband is deployed. Its just me and 3 dogs. I have the wood left over from Ivan, and it was kept in a dry place so I hope it still works.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
2002. rv1pop
Quoting Grothar:
Does anybody know how to get the milk protein out of plastic jugs so we can use them to store water?

Comment on here was to use chlorine bleach. That is a poison worse that old milk. Strong solution of vinegar works well. BUT -- keep the jugs cool and out of the sun. In tests at Univ. of WA. (can not give date) the bottles were stable to 45 degrees. safe to 75 degrees and unsafe even the retail water variety over 85 degrees F. (I think it was a Dr. Galigher that had the study done, late 60's or early 70's)
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Quoting Grothar:


It's hard to learn a foreign language.


I wish you would forget some of this language....like "milk" and "jug" and "plastic".
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Quoting Grothar:
Does anybody know how to get the milk protein out of plastic jugs so we can use them to store water?


yeah wash em. jk
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58.6 mph (I know the data is suspect) measured close to coc?
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1998. Grothar
Quoting PcolaDan:

Wish I could see what you're saying here, but I have you on ignore. :|


I would respond to that, but I can't see it. At least post a map of 97L.
Member Since: July 17, 2009 Posts: 71 Comments: 26949
1997. Patrap
Quoting presslord:


cheap bourbon


There's cheap Bourbon ?


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Quoting Grothar:
Does anybody know how to get the milk protein out of plastic jugs so we can use them to store water?


I would only use them for flushing and bathing IMO. Its easier to store 65 gallons in an Aquapod.
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1995. wn1995
Quoting weatherh98:


What bout 99l 30 imo


If they don't just circle one area with 98L and 99L, then theres no telling what they will go on it.
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Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:
T.C.F.A.
INV/XX/97L
MARK
14.71,-52.15


There is no T.C.F.A on 97L.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 113 Comments: 32553
1993. WxLogic
@8PM I would expect at least 50% for 97L.
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1992. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod)
T.C.F.W.
08L/TS/H/CX
NEARING LANDFALL

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About

Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.