Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

TD 8 forms; 97L a potential threat to the Caribbean and U.S.
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:30 PM GMT on August 19, 2011 +33
Tropical Depression Eight formed last night near the coast of Honduras, and is headed westwards towards a landfall in Belize on Saturday. TD 8 is a small storm, so will impact a relatively small area of northern Honduras, northern Guatemala, all of Belize, and southern portions of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. TD 8 has just enough room between its center and the coast of Honduras to intensify into a moderate strength tropical storm with 50 - 60 mph winds before landfall. It is very unlikely TD8 has the time or room to intensify into a hurricane; NHC gave the storm just a 7% chance of making it to hurricane strength in their 11am EDT wind probability forecast. Should TD8 make it to tropical storm strength, it would be called Harvey.


Figure 1. Morning satellite image of TD 8.

Invest 97L likely to become a tropical storm next week, could threaten the U.S.
A tropical wave near 14°N 48°W, about 800 miles east of the Lesser Antilles Islands, is moving westward near 20 mph. This wave, designated Invest 97L by NHC yesterday, has seen a marked increase in its heavy thunderstorm activity this morning, but dry air to the north and west is slowing development. An impressive amount of large-scale spin is obvious in visible satellite loops, but the storm is at least a day away from forming a well-defined surface circulation. Ocean temperatures are about 28.5°C, about 2°C above the threshold needed to support a tropical storm, and wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots.


Figure 2. Morning satellite image of the tropical wave 97L.

The computer models have shown an unusual amount of agreement in developing 97L over the past few days, and all the ingredients seem to be in place for a tropical storm to form by Monday or Tuesday as 97L crosses the Northeast Caribbean. The atmosphere is expected to be moister over the Caribbean, wind shear will remain a low 5 - 10 knots, and sea surface temperatures will increase to near 29°C. The main impediment for development will likely be two-fold: too much dry, stable air, and proximity to land.

As seen in Figure 3, there has been an unusual amount of dry, stable air in the Atlantic this year, due to a combination of dry air from Africa, and upper-atmosphere dynamics creating large areas of sinking air that dry as they warm and approach the surface. This stable air has been largely responsible for the fact that none of our seven tropical storms so far this year has made it to hurricane strength, despite the presence of sea surface temperatures that are the 3rd warmest on record across the tropical Atlantic. Tropical Storm Emily in early August encountered problems with dry air when it crossed the Northeast Caribbean, and 97L may have similar difficulties.


Figure 3. Vertical instability of the atmosphere during 2011 in the Caribbean (left) and tropical Atlantic between the Lesser Antilles Islands and coast of Africa (right.) The instability is plotted in °C, as a difference in temperature from near the surface to the upper atmosphere. Thunderstorms grow much more readily when vertical instability is high. Observed vertical instability (blue line) has been much lower than the climatological average from previous years (black line), due to an unusual amount of dry air in the atmosphere, inhibiting tropical storm development this year. Image credit: NOAA/CIRA.

Encounters with land will be another potential major problem for 97L. Most of the computer models take 97L near or over Puerto Rico Sunday night, then very close to or over mountainous Hispaniola Monday night through Tuesday. It is unlikely that 97L will be stronger than a 55 mph tropical storm when it encounters these islands, and passage over the islands could severely disrupt the storm. However, if 97L takes a path just south or north of Hispaniola, the potential exists for the storm to intensify into a hurricane.

There will be moderate wind shear of 10 - 20 knots to the north of the islands early next week, so a path just to the south of the Dominican Republic and Haiti would be more likely to let 97L intensify into a hurricane. A west-northwest motion is likely for 97L through Wednesday, which would bring the storm to the vicinity of Jamaica-Central Cuba-the Central Bahamas on Wednesday. On Wednesday and Thursday, the models agree that a trough of low pressure will dip down over the Eastern U.S., which is likely to turn 97L to the north. The exact timing and strength of this trough varies considerably from model to model, and will be critical in determining where and when 97L will turn to the north. The best model for predicting the timing and strength of such troughs over the past two years has been the ECMWF (European Center model), and this model currently brings 97L into the Florida Keys on Thursday night next week. You can view ECMWF forecasts on our wundermap with the model layer turned on. The European Center does not permit public display of tropical storm positions from their hurricane tracking module of their model, so we are unable to put ECMWF forecasts on our computer model forecast page that plots positions from the other major models.

Remember that a 7-day forecast by even our best model will be off by an average of over 700 miles, so it is too early to tell what part of the U.S. might be most at risk from a strike by 97L. This weekend would be a good time to go over your hurricane preparedness.


Figure 4. Morning satellite image of Invest 98L off the coast of Africa.

Invest 98L near the coast of Africa
A tropical wave near the coast of Africa, a few hundred miles southeast of the Cape Verde Islands, is moving west to west-northwestward at 10 - 15 mph. This wave, designated Invest 98L by NHC yesterday, is large and well-organized, with a modest amount of spin and heavy thunderstorm activity. 98L will bring strong, gusty winds and heavy rains to the Cape Verde Islands today and Saturday as the storm skirts to the south. So far this morning, top sustained winds measured in the islands were 24 mph at Mindelo. Water temperatures are warm, near 27 - 28°C, and wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots, so 98L should continue to organize today. NHC gave the storm a 50% chance of developing into a tropical depression in their 8am advisory. Once 98L passes to the west of the Cape Verde Islands, it has a long stretch of ocean to cross before it could affect any other land areas. Approximately 70 - 80% of all tropical cyclones that pass this close to the Cape Verde Islands end up curving out to sea and not affecting any other land areas, according to Dr. Bob Hart's excellent historical probability of landfall charts. The latest set of long-range model runs go along with this idea, but it is too early to be confident of this.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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3201. Clearwater1 4:54 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TropicalWeatherGrl88:


"If" it does do that track and is a cat 4/5 hurricane like they said(not that I want that),I think I might pay $500.00 for a reading.
I'm going to get the reading and foot massage.
Member Since: August 26, 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1502
3202. IFuSAYso 4:54 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting earthlydragonfly:
I guess Im on ignore?? Talks into the mic.... Tap Tap Tap... Is this thing on???


lol
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3203. AtHomeInTX 4:55 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Ok. My two cents. FWIW. Watching that gfs run compared to last nights 0z, tonights run is a lot faster. Lat night 97l sat in the NE Caribbean for many many frames and waited for its ride north. A lot faster tonight. Whatever that means. But it doesn't seem to gel ith what I read here? And please don't shoot the messenger again. I'm just posting what someone else said. :)

TOWARD THE END OF THE WEEK AND INTO THE WEEKEND...ALL EYES ARE
LIKELY TO BE ON THE AREA OF DISTURBED WEATHER CURRENTLY IN THE
ATLANTIC EAST OF THE LESSER ANTILLES. RECENT SUITE OF GLOBAL
MODELS INDICATES THAT A W-WNW TRACK IS LIKELY THROUGH THE
CARIBBEAN NEAR THE GREATER ANTILLES AND CUBA. THEREAFTER...ALTHOUGH
BEGINNING TO FILL.
..ENOUGH OF A WEAKNESS IS PROGGED TO REMAIN
ACROSS THE EASTERN GULF COAST REGION/SOUTHEAST CONUS TO INDUCE
WHATEVER BECOMES OF THIS FEATURE ON A MORE POLEWARD TRACK. WHETHER
THIS SCENARIO HOLDS REMAINS TO BE SEEN...AND WILL BEAR WATCHING
OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS.

Does or did anyone else see this fill?
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3204. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 4:55 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting wxgeek723:


Two weeks away isn't peak of the season? I didn't realized we made some changes around here.

we reach peak in 21 days
then the slow steady drop in activity till the end
from the 20th of august till 20th of sept is the most activity
at least this year
then a couple of more maybe a screamer or two for oct
and 1 to 3 for november
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3205. GTcooliebai 4:55 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting nigel20:

Charlie was in 1951 right?
Yep, it was the 2nd year Names were taken from the Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet.
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3206. TampaSpin 4:56 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Clearwater1:

That's what I was saying. I don't think I've ever seen a storm 12 day out, presented by a model or group of models, with such consistency, and repetitiveness. Never that I can recall.



Just a few days ago many was bashing the MODELS.......lol
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3207. nigel20 4:56 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3208. swflurker 4:56 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
oops Wilma 2005 Charlie 2004
Quoting Hurricanes101:


sorry no Wilma either
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3209. TropicalWeatherGrl88 4:57 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting atmoaggie:
I dunno what FL mets are saying.
Anyone?

~7 days from now would the earliest approach to FL from 97L. Serious talk about monitoring the system should begin soon. But without a developed system, it would take more faith in the models than usual.

Also, the models have been about as consistent as I think I've ever seen them at developing a system...


Again if all of this comes to pass with the track and even close to the intensity, these models are worth all the money they spend on them by far.Before you know it they will be predicting storms before they even exit Africa. Well maybe not but the possibility is there
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3210. IFuSAYso 4:57 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting earthlydragonfly:
on the GFS pressure is falling as it crosses FL. How is that? This isnt a TS like Fay


Katrina survived crossing FL when 90% said she was doom. Some blame the everglades.
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3211. TropicalWeatherGrl88 4:58 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Clearwater1:
I'm going to get the reading and foot massage.


Sounds good, lets go together :-)
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3212. wxgeek723 4:58 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting KEEPEROFTHEGATE:

we reach peak in 21 days
then the slow steady drop in activity till the end
from the 20th of august till 20th of sept is the most activity
at least this year
then a couple of more maybe a screamer or two for oct
and 1 to 3 for november


I repeat. That's the average of statistical data. Nature doesn't answer to that. A hurricane season's peak is not one date. Early September is absolutely part of the peak of the season.
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3213. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 5:00 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
T.C.F.W.
08L/TS/H/CX
NEARING LANDFALL

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3214. hunkerdown 5:00 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting wxgeek723:


Really now? No need to be so overly technical. The peak of a hurricane season isn't a single date, it's a broad period.
tap tap tap, chart please...you will see that there is an actual "peak" of the season within the "peak period" and the date is September 10, or 21 days/3 weeks away...and that IS "really now".
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3215. nigel20 5:01 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting swflurker:
oops Wilma 2005 Charlie 2004

It was Charley(2004) not Charlie(1951)
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3216. TropicalWeatherGrl88 5:01 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IFuSAYso:


Katrina survived crossing FL when 90% said she was doom. Some blame the everglades.


The everglades make sense, plus we do not have any high terrain, but Katrina passed east to west this would be going south to north and that is a lot of time over land. Those are the things that are really making me wonder about the intensity they forcast.
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3217. Clearwater1 5:02 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
Yep, it was the 2nd year Names were taken from the Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet.

Yea, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have computer models back then.
My point is that for 12 consecutive days, the models have been almost carbon copies of one another. (bar a few) but you get my point. Not really flip flopping that much. I think Wilma may have fit the bill too, but She was stalled for quite a while, and the cold front picked her up. But other than her. Come on 12 days out and it's still hitting FL.
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3218. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 5:02 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
T.C.F.A.
INV/XX/97L
MARK
14.66N/53.12W
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3219. Clearwater1 5:03 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TropicalWeatherGrl88:


Sounds good, lets go together :-)


Well, sure, they after all, are twins.
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3220. hunkerdown 5:03 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IFuSAYso:


Katrina survived crossing FL when 90% said she was doom. Some blame the everglades.
Andrew held his own after traversing the tip of Southern Florida
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3221. Floodman 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Thrawst:


I thoroughly enjoyed Chantal of 1995. I was 4.5 months old and already predicted Chantal to move out to sea 10 days in advance. :D lol.


You're stormtop's kid, aren't you?
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3222. tropicfreak 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
If the GFS were to pan out, this storm would affect everyone up and down the east coast from FL to Maine. Will be very interesting to watch.
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3223. wxgeek723 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting hunkerdown:
tap tap tap, chart please...you will see that there is an actual "peak" of the season within the "peak period" and the date is September 10, or 21 days/3 weeks away...and that IS "really now".


Of course calling on the charts. I'm well aware the peak of the season is mid September. Statistically yes you are correct. However September is the PEAK MONTH, that's what I was referring to. Need you attack me with your stats? They only mean so much. I know what I'm talking about. You don't need make a correction and give yourself some false sense of superiority by defeating the sarcastic guy.
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3224. TampaSpin 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
gotta go shut the eyes.........good nite all
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3225. sunlinepr 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3226. GTcooliebai 5:04 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Clearwater1:

Yea, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have computer models back then.
My point is that for 12 consecutive days, the models have been almost carbon copies of one another. (bar a few) but you get my point. Not really flip flopping that much. I think Wilma may have fit the bill too, but She was stalled for quite a while, and the cold front picked her up. But other than her. Come on 12 days out and it's still hitting FL.
Oh no I wasn't disagreeing with you, and you have a good point, I was just telling him the naming system back then, to help clear up any confusion between Charley & Charlie.
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3227. dfwstormwatch 5:05 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
now should i post the advanced dvorak estimates every 30 minutes?
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3228. THL3 5:05 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
FWIW - Since we will have multiple systems occurring at the same time please state which system your graph, chart, opinion, etc pertains too. I get confused, thanks. :-)
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3229. HurricaneDean07 5:06 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
This year is been a weird and entertaining one for sure: History ; Present ; Forecasted~ for the Season
June~ 1-0-0
Arlene: 65 Mph, 993 MB, 25 Deaths

July~ 3-0-0
Bret: 65 Mph, 996 MB, 0 Deaths
Cindy: 60 Mph, 1000 MB, 0 Deaths
Don: 50 Mph, 998 MB, 0 Deaths

August~ So Far: 4-0-0
Emily: 50 Mph, 1003 MB, 5 Deaths
Franklin: 45 Mph, 1004 MB, 0 Deaths
Gert: 60 Mph, 1000 MB, 0 Deaths
Harvey(So far): 60 Mph, 994 MB, 0 Deaths

August~ Forecast for the rest of the month
Irene

September~
Jose
Katia
Lee
Maria
Nate

October~
Ophelia
Phillipe
Rina

November~
Sean
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3230. nigel20 5:07 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Current ACE via wiki 12.3
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3231. Patrap 5:07 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
..earlier




00z Invest97y Cycle NHC model tracks
Invest97 Statistical/Simple Models (CLIPER,BAMs,LBAR,other Statistical Models)




Dynamic Models (More sophisticated models)




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3233. TomTaylor 5:07 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting atmoaggie:
No, the other way around. A well-developed, closed TC stops bringing in mid-level air, only low-level. (However, exceptions always exist in this subject, it seems.)

In-up-out.

And, yes, right now Harvey still vulnerable to mid-level dry air.
air is definitely still pulled in. Maybe less so than at the low levels due to less fictional effects, but the pressure gradient is still there.
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3234. Clearwater1 5:08 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting GTcooliebai:
Oh no I wasn't disagreeing with you, and you have a good point, I was just telling him the naming system back then, to help clear up any confusion between Charley & Charlie.
Ah, I see what you are saying. Good point and post.
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3235. ralphmtsu 5:08 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
With the dry air sinking to the SW of 97, does that influence a more WNW track once the storm organizes? I know most of the activity this year has seen storms wanting to "defy" model logic by staying on a more westerly trajectory, but the environment for 97 looks more promising to the WNW-- not good news for VIPR if the storm strengthens.
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3236. ProgressivePulse 5:09 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TampaSpin:



Just a few days ago many was bashing the MODELS.......lol



Deep layer steering, There is no where else for it to go. Where ever the weakness is yabang...
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3237. HurricaneDean07 5:10 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
----- Current Analysis -----
Date : 20 AUG 2011 Time : 034500 UTC
Lat : 16:13:12 N Lon : 85:19:16 W


CI# /Pressure/ Vmax
3.5 / 993.2mb/ 55.0kt


Final T# Adj T# Raw T#
3.5 3.8 4.2

Center Temp : -67.1C Cloud Region Temp : -68.4C

Scene Type : EMBEDDED CENTER CLOUD REGION

Positioning Method : FORECAST INTERPOLATION

Ocean Basin : ATLANTIC
Dvorak CI > MSLP Conversion Used : ATLANTIC

Tno/CI Rules : Constraint Limits : 0.5T/hour
Weakening Flag : OFF
Rapid Dissipation Flag : OFF

C/K/Z MSLP Estimate Inputs :
- Average 34 knot radii : 35km
- Environmental MSLP : 1010mb

Satellite Viewing Angle : 22.4 degrees

65 Mph, 993 MB estimated by Satellite from Harvey, nearing Hurricane Status according to Raw T#, though should be a 60 Mph or slightly higher 65 Mph storm at Intermediate advisory...
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3238. Patrap 5:10 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
TS Harvey

2km Storm Relative IR Imagery with BD Enhancement Curve




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3240. IFuSAYso 5:10 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TropicalWeatherGrl88:


The everglades make sense, plus we do not have any high terrain, but Katrina passed east to west this would be going south to north and that is a lot of time over land. Those are the things that are really making me wonder about the intensity they forcast.


Allot of warm water in the glades, Lake Okeechobee, and may skirt the west side. I just hope the levy's in Okeechobee are intact if a direct hit (use to live in Clewiston).
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3241. sunlinepr 5:10 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
97L has a SouthEasterly partner in the ITCZ
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3242. dfwstormwatch 5:10 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
by the way 99l's no longer being updated so it might not be here anymore...
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3243. Thrawst 5:11 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
I'm off for the night. P'ce out everyone.
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3244. GTcooliebai 5:11 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting P451:
Good early morning.

Taking a look at all that is out there one last time.

Put center fixes within the loops - all corresponding with the 0Z center fixes according to ATCF - all placed on the 0Z image frames. Each loop temporarily pauses at that frame.


Harvey




97L (look where the convection fires, over the surface center!)





98L and 99L (Yep, those are the fixes according to ATCF)

A system below 10N would have a hard time developing because it wouldn't be able to take advantage of the Coriolis effect of the Earth right P451?
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3245. Hurricanes101 5:11 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting HurricaneDean07:
This year is been a weird and entertaining one for sure: History ; Present ; Forecasted~ for the Season
June~ 1-0-0
Arlene: 65 Mph, 993 MB, 25 Deaths

July~ 3-0-0
Bret: 65 Mph, 996 MB, 0 Deaths
Cindy: 60 Mph, 1000 MB, 0 Deaths
Don: 50 Mph, 998 MB, 0 Deaths

August~ So Far: 4-0-0
Emily: 50 Mph, 1003 MB, 5 Deaths
Franklin: 45 Mph, 1004 MB, 0 Deaths
Gert: 60 Mph, 1000 MB, 0 Deaths
Harvey(So far): 60 Mph, 994 MB, 0 Deaths

August~ Forecast for the rest of the month
Irene

September~
Jose
Katia
Lee
Maria
Nate

October~
Ophelia
Phillipe
Rina

November~
Sean


I like your breakdown save for one thing....

I have a hard time believing that we will only have 1 more named storm the rest of August
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3246. dfwstormwatch 5:11 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting dfwstormwatch:
by the way 99l's no longer being updated so it might not be here anymore...

Name
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Last Modified





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3247. sunlinepr 5:12 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3248. Patrap 5:12 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3249. Patrap 5:14 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3250. Grothar 5:15 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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3251. emguy 5:15 AM GMT on August 20, 2011    
I gotta admit, recalling when I was tracking the wave that is now Harvey (many days ago), when it was in the central atlantic and people started getting excited now 97L, I thought the conversation was crazy. Another crystal ball discussion of a phantom system 2 week out or so.

Now, it just disturbing how the 2 weeks of models flip flopping back and fourth east and west with Florida somewhere in the middle and have slowly come together over time into what is becoming a remarkably tight consensus in days 5-7 all things considered. Dislike...
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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