Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Harvey drenching Belize; 97L a threat to the Caribbean and U.S.
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 4:16 PM GMT on August 20, 2011 +26
Tropical Storm Harvey is closing in towards a landfall this afternoon in Belize, and is dumping very heavy rains on northern Honduras, northern Guatemala, and Belize as it steadily moves west near 12 mph. A personal weather station on Roatan Island on the north coast of Honduras has received 6.68" of rain as of 10am EDT this morning from Harvey, and had a peak wind gust of 42 mph. The Roatan airport has received 3.55", and had a peak wind gust of 40 mph. The first significant spiral band from Harvey moved over Belize City at 7am local time, dropping nearly an inch of rain on the city. Belize National Meteorological Service radar shows that Harvey has appeared to close off an eyewall as of 11:30am EDT, which may allow the storm to intensify another 10 - 15 mph before landfall. The 11am NHC wind probability forecast gave Harvey a 3% chance of making it to hurricane strength, but the discussion noted that it wouldn't be that hard for Harvey to gain another 10 - 15 mph before landfall. I estimate there is a 30% chance that the winds along a 10-mile stretch of Belize coast where the eyewall makes landfall will reach hurricane force.


Figure 1. Radar image of Harvey taken at 11:30am EDT on Saturday, August 20, 2011, a few hours before landfall in Belize. A small closed eye is visible just south of the offshore islands of Belize. Image credit: Belize National Meteorological Service.


Figure 2. True-color MODIS image of Tropical Storm Harvey taken at 12:25pm EDT on Friday, August 19, 2011. An hour after this picture was taken, Harvey became a tropical storm with 40 mph winds. Image credit: NASA.

An exceptionally active early part of hurricane season
It's been a strangely hyperactive season for weak storms in the Atlantic so far this year. Tropical Storm Harvey is the 8th named storm this year, and its formation date of August 19 marks the 4th earliest date on record for the Atlantic's 8th storm. Only 2005, 1933, and 1936 had the 8th storm of the season form earlier. All eight storms this year have stayed below hurricane strength, making 2011 the first hurricane season since record keeping began in 1851 to have more than six consecutive tropical storms that did not reach hurricane strength. As I discussed in yesterday's post, a major reason for this is the lack of vertical instability over the tropical Atlantic so far this year. We've had a large amount of dry, sinking air over the tropical Atlantic, and the usual amount of dry, dusty air from the Sahara, both helping to keep the atmosphere stable and stop this year's storms from intensifying into hurricanes. Hurricane activity typically ramps up big-time by August 20, with more than 80% of all the hurricanes and 65% of all the tropical storms occurring after that date. With 97L looking like it will become a named storm in the next few days, at our current pace, 2011 will become the second busiest Atlantic hurricane season on record, with 24 - 27 named storms. There are only 21 names in the list of names for a hurricane season, so we may have to break out the Greek alphabet again in late October this year, as occurred in 2005. Ironically, we are using the 2005 list of names this year, so 16 of this year's 21 names are repeats of 2005. I'm not too happy about seeing a hurricane season challenge the Hurricane Season of 2005 in any way, and let's hope we don't retire another five names this year, like occurred in 2005! With vertical instability much lower this year than in 2005, and that year having already seen one storm (Dennis) retired by this point in the season, I doubt that will happen, though.


Figure 3. The annual cycle of average hurricane frequency in the Atlantic. Historically, about 35% of all the tropical storms and 15% of all the hurricanes will have occurred by August 20.

Invest 97L likely to become a tropical storm by Tuesday, could threaten the U.S.
A tropical wave near 14°N 56°W, about 450 miles east of the Lesser Antilles Islands, is moving west to west-northwest at 15 - 20 mph. This wave, designated Invest 97L, has built a respectable amount of heavy thunderstorm activity over the past day, but remains disorganized. Dry air to the north and west is slowing development, as well as moderate wind shear of 10 - 20 knots, as analyzed by the University of Wisconsin CIMSS group. An impressive amount of large-scale spin is obvious in visible satellite loops, but there is no sign of a well-defined surface circulation. An ASCAT pass at 9:04am EDT this morning showed a strong wind shift, but no closed circulation. Ocean temperatures are about 28.5°C, about 2°C above the threshold needed to support a tropical storm. A hurricane hunter aircraft will investigate 97L this afternoon.


Figure 4. Morning satellite image of the tropical disturbance Invest 97L.

The computer models have shifted southwards since yesterday, and now take 97L south of Puerto Rico on Monday, and along the south shore of the Dominican Republic on Tuesday. On Wednesday, 97L should pass near or over southern Haiti, Eastern Cuba, and Jamaica. On Wednesday and Thursday, the models agree that a trough of low pressure will dip down over the Eastern U.S., which is likely to turn 97L to the north. The exact timing and strength of this trough varies considerably from model to model, and will be critical in determining where and when 97L will turn to the north. We can expect that 97L will impact Central Cuba, the Bahamas, and the Florida Keys on Thursday, but it is uncertain whether 97L's turn to the north will take the storm into the Gulf of Mexico or not.

The computer models continue to enthusiastically develop 97L, and all the ingredients seem to be in place for a tropical storm to form by Monday or Tuesday as 97L crosses the Northeast Caribbean. The atmosphere is expected to be moister over the Caribbean, wind shear will remain a low 5 - 10 knots, and sea surface temperatures will increase to near 29°C. The main impediment for development will likely be two-fold: too much dry, stable air, and proximity to land.

There has been an unusual amount of dry, stable air in the Atlantic this year, due to a combination of dry air from Africa, and upper-atmosphere dynamics creating large areas of sinking air that dry as they warm and approach the surface. This stable air has been largely responsible for the fact that none of our seven tropical storms so far this year has made it to hurricane strength, despite the presence of sea surface temperatures that are the 3rd warmest on record across the tropical Atlantic. Tropical Storm Emily in early August encountered problems with dry air when it crossed the Northeast Caribbean, and 97L may have similar difficulties. There will be some moderate wind shear of 10 - 20 knots to the north of 97L over the next week, and this shear may work in concert with the dry air to slow development.

Given 97L's current disorganization and problems with dry air, I believe it is unlikely the storm will be stronger than a 55 mph tropical storm on Tuesday morning, when it will be close enough to the mountainous island of Hispaniola that a good portion of its circulation will be over the island, disrupting the storm. 97L may also make a direct hit on the Dominican Republic or Haiti sometime Tuesday or Wednesday morning, which could even destroy the storm, like happened to Tropical Storm Emily in early August. However, there is at least a 30% chance that 97L will miss Hispaniola, and slide through the waters between Jamaica and Eastern Cuba, allowing the storm to intensify into a hurricane south of Cuba. At this point, it appears there are too many hurdles for 97L to negotiate for it to arrive in the Florida Straits as a hurricane, since the storm has to cross Cuba and/or Hispaniola, plus contend with dry air and wind shear. However, 97L hasn't even developed a well-defined circulation yet, making it difficult for the models to zero in on a solution for where the storm might go. The average error for an official 5-day forecast from NHC for a developed storm is 200 - 250 miles; the error will be much higher for a 6 to 7-day forecast of an Invest that hasn't developed yet. Given the uncertainties, this weekend would be a good time to go over your hurricane preparedness if you live anywhere in the Caribbean, Bahamas, or Florida, since 97L could well be paying you a visit as a tropical storm or hurricane sometime in the next week.


Figure 5. Skill of computer model forecasts of Atlantic named storms during 2010. OFCL=Official NHC forecast; GFS=Global Forecast System model; GFDL=Geophysical Fluid Dynamic Laboratory model; HWRF=Hurricane Weather Research Forecasting model; NOGAPS=Navy Operational Global Prediction System model; UKMET=United Kingdom Met Office model; ECMWF=European Center for Medium Range Weather Forecasting model; TVCN=one of the consensus models that lends together all (or most) of the above models. Image credit: National Hurricane Center 2010 verification report.

Which model should you trust?
Wunderground provides a web page with computer model forecasts for many of the best-performing models used to predict hurricane tracks. So which is the best? Well, the best forecasts are made by combining the forecasts from three or more models into a "consensus" forecast. Over the past decade, NHC has greatly improved their forecasts by relying on consensus forecast models made using various combinations of the GFS, GFDL, NOGAPS, UKMET, HWRF, and ECMWF models. If you average together the track forecasts from these models, the NHC official forecast will rarely depart much from it, and the NHC forecast has been hard to beat over the past few years. The single best-performing model over the past two years has been the ECMWF (European Center model). This model out-performed the official NHC forecast in 2010 for 1-day, 2-day, 3-day and 4-day forecasts, and in 2009 for 4-day and 5-day forecasts. You can view ECMWF forecasts on our wundermap with the model layer turned on. The European Center does not permit public display of tropical storm positions from their hurricane tracking module of their model, so we are unable to put ECMWF forecasts on our computer model forecast page that plots positions from the other major models. As seen in Figure 5, over the past two years, the GFS and GFDL model have been the next best models, with the UKMET model not far behind. Last year, the NOGAPS model did very poorly, forcing NHC to come up with some new consensus models this year, the TCOA and TVCA, that do not include the NOGAPS model. For those interested in learning more about the models, NOAA has a great training video (updated for 2011.)

Invest 98L near the Cape Verde Islands
A tropical wave near Cape Verde Islands off the coast of Africa, Invest 98L, is spreading heavy rains and strong gusty winds to those islands today. So far this morning, top sustained winds measured in the Cape Verde Islands were 23 mph at Mindelo. Water temperatures are warm, near 27 - 28°C, and wind shear is low, 5 - 10 knots, so 98L should continue to organize today before running into more hostile conditions on Sunday. NHC gave the storm a 40% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Monday morning in their 8am advisory. Once 98L passes to the east of the Lesser Antilles, it has a long stretch of ocean to cross before it could affect any other land areas. Approximately 70 - 80% of all tropical cyclones that pass this close to the Cape Verde Islands end up curving out to sea and not affecting any other land areas, according to Dr. Bob Hart's excellent historical probability of landfall charts. The latest set of long-range model runs go along with this idea, and I'd be surprised if 98L threatens any land areas.

Dismal Swamp fire creating dangerous air pollution in Virginia
Lightning from a thunderstorm on August 4 sparked a fire in Southeast Virginia's Dismal Swamp, which continues to burn out of control. Yesterday, air quality alerts for Code Purple pollution--the worst category of air pollution--were posted for Suffolk, Virginia and continue today. The region, including the cities of Norfolk and Hampton Roads, have seen an increase in hospital admissions for people with breathing problems, plus an increase in traffic accidents due to low visibility conditions on area roads. The fire has burned 6100 acres and is 15% contained. Given that it is burning more than 1 foot underground, it will be difficult to put out unless heavy rains raise the water table. The region is under "Abnormally dry" drought conditions, the lowest category of drought on the five-category drought scale.

Jeff Masters
Tropical Storm Harvey (mchavez)
Raining @ Roatan Bay Islands
Tropical Storm Harvey
Categories: Hurricane
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1101. Levi32 8:04 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting washingtonian115:
You mean Beautiful?.It will be a girl.....


Yeah....I was just trying to hide the fact that I'm madly in love with her.

Lol.
Member Since: November 24, 2005 Posts: 586 Comments: 25441
1102. nrtiwlnvragn 8:04 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
HPC Extended Forecast Discussion

Excerpt:


00Z/20 MODELS HAD TRENDED SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT OF PRIOR FORECASTS
WITH THE TROPICAL WAVE NEARING THE LEEWARD ISLANDS WITH THE 00Z
OPERATIONAL ECMWF CLOSEST TO THE DETERMINISTIC CONSENSUS AND
GLOBAL ENSEMBLE MEANS. 12Z MODELS DETERMINISTIC MODELS RANGE FROM
TRACKING THE SYS ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ENVELOPE INTO THE GULF OF
MEXICO AS PER THE CANADIAN/UKMET...TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE
ENVELOPE ALONG THE E COAST OF FL AS PER THE ECMWF/UKMET. FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.

NEW 00Z/20 ENSEMBLE SPAGHETTI PLOTS SHOWED THE DETERMINISTIC GFS
GETTING ON THE FAR RIGHT OF THE ENVELOPE OF SOLUTIONS WITH THE
TROPICAL SYS VICINITY OF FL BY NEXT WEEKEND. THE 06Z/20 GFS
BACKED OFF FOR NEXT SAT ON BEING S FAR N WITH IT. THE
DETERMINISTIC ECMWF CLUSTERS WELL WITH ITS OWN ENSEMBLE MEMBERS
AND EVEN SOME GEFS ENSEMBLE MEMBERS.


THE NEW 12Z GFS FOLLOWS ITS 00Z CONTINUITY REASONABLY WELL THRU
DAY 5 ON ALL THE MAIN FEATURES.
WE SEE BIGGER CHANGES FOR DAYS 6-7 AS TIMING/AMPLITUDE DIFFERENCES
CROP UP ACROSS CANADA. THESE CHANGES WOULD REMOVE THE POLAR
WESTERLIES ACROSS SRN CANADA EVEN FARTHER AWAY FROM HAVING ANY
INFLUENCE ON THE TRACK OF THE TROPICAL SYS THREATENING THE SERN
CONUS. IN FACT ALL THE 12Z DETERMINISTIC MODELS KEEP THE POLAR
WESTERLIES FAR ENOUGH N ACROSS SRN CANADA THAT AFTER A PINCH OF
ENERGY DROPS S INTO THE OH VLY THE FIRST PART OF THE MEDIUM RANGE
PERIOD...THERE SHOULD BE MINIMAL...IF ANY...INTERACTION OF ANY SE
CONUS TROPICAL SYS LATE NEXT WEEK WITH THE POLAR WESTERLIES.

FLOOD

Typo in one of the bolded statements, can't have UKMET on both sides.....



Member Since: September 23, 2005 Posts: 11 Comments: 8918
1103. KennyNebraska 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting P451:
Just want to put something out there... invest 97L is large, but, I'm not looking for the whole thing to spin up and rotate around the doughnut hole.

I'm looking at the red outlined area to become a dominant region of circulation with a 'tail'. The rest outside the red I would expect to find away.





Thoughts?


Yep. Just move your southwest angle (arc to 1st straight line - SW) south and west 50 more miles and you're there.
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1104. washingtonian115 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TheNewGuy:
Wow!!!.That's the largest donut hole I've seen.I think invest 97L taste like the coconut donuts.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10612
1105. dfwstormwatch 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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1106. WeatherNerdPR 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
You know, we still have Harvey.
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1107. IKE 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    

Quoting scott39:
Lets hope its not trouble for us!
Not sure it isn't...yet.
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1108. Patrap 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
1109. weatherh98 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
""

Almost through it... You can do it
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1110. atmoaggie 8:05 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Contrarian:
This season has been defined by two things-

-A record breaking lack of hurricanes.
-An extremely poor performance by many models.

You really should be using this season to separate out the good models from the bad, rather than wishcasting the latest invest into a major hurricane.
Umm, okaaaaayyy.

Which model would you say we should look to for 97L, rather than the ones that show a major hurricane?
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1111. TheNewGuy 8:06 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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1112. washingtonian115 8:06 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Levi32:


Yeah....I was just trying to hide the fact that I'm madly in love with her.

Lol.
Lol.Irene is making the men on this site falling for her!!.She's fast.
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1113. atmoaggie 8:06 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting WeatherNerdPR:
You know, we still have Harvey.
Whom, exactly?
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1114. JLPR2 8:06 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TheNewGuy:


97L is eye candy, really pretty invest but disorganized at the surface. Still a day and a half from me so it could still be a threat to my area. But my biggest worry is the amount of rain it could dump on PR.
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1115. KennyNebraska 8:06 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Patrap:

18z Early Cycle NHC model tracks
Invest97
Dynamic Models (More sophisticated models)


Look at the end of those runs! Miami DOOM with any of those tracks?
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1116. ProgressivePulse 8:07 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Afternoon All. 97L is filling in it's massive circulation this hour. Makes Harvey look like a little pip squeak. No dis-respect to those in the path of Harvey as I doubt they share my thoughts.

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1117. Patrap 8:07 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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1118. NCHurricane2009 8:07 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting P451:
Just want to put something out there... invest 97L is large, but, I'm not looking for the whole thing to spin up and rotate around the doughnut hole.

I'm looking at the red outlined area to become a dominant region of circulation with a 'tail'. The rest outside the red I would expect to *fade* away.





Thoughts?


That's what I was thinking...and I was also thinking the center (if there is one) was on the SW edge of the red outline you drew...but now I am not so sure because recon can't find anything but E winds about a sharp wave axis....
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1119. WeatherNerdPR 8:08 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting atmoaggie:
Whom, exactly?

lol
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1121. IKE 8:08 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.
Member Since: June 9, 2005 Posts: 23 Comments: 37044
1122. weatherh98 8:08 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting washingtonian115:
Lol.Irene is making the men on this site falling for her!!.She's fast.


:) she can only pic one yall
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1123. KennyNebraska 8:08 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting WeatherNerdPR:
You know, we still have Harvey.


Yeah, but he is invisible to the rest of us right now.
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1124. TheNewGuy 8:08 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Should be an interesting DMAX if it's firing convection a few hours away from DMIN.

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1125. StormJunkie 8:09 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:


It is no longer on the FSU site. UKMET did a ECMWF and started restricting access to their data.


Jackwagons...

Thanks for the heads up nrti!
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1126. BoyntonBeachFL 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Large is becoming an understatement, soon to cover an area almost as big as Texas.
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1127. Seflhurricane 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
so nothing intresting to report with 97L from recon
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1128. KennyNebraska 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.


That would be very bad. Any time at all that systems spends with the center over Gulf waters would most indubitably mean DOOM.
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1129. weatherh98 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
It honestly looks like a hurricane with a mutated eye
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1130. redwagon 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.


Hm.
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1131. Goldenblack 8:10 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Hey Ike, where did that come from?



Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.
Member Since: June 28, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 705
1132. washingtonian115 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting weatherh98:


:) she can only pic one yall
Lol.And the one she picks is the ones house she's coming for.(Okay not funny.)
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10612
1133. Tazmanian 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
am not sure if any one saw this for HARVEY but if HARVEY had a little more time we wound of have hurricane HARVEY


000
URNT12 KNHC 201610
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL082011
A. 20/15:51:10Z
B. 16 deg 50 min N
087 deg 54 min W
C. 850 mb 1426 m
D. 52 kt
E. 231 deg 6 nm
F. 327 deg 53 kt
G. 224 deg 4 nm
H. 1000 mb
I. 14 C / 1533 m
J. 21 C / 1535 m
K. 13 C / NA
L. open nw
M. C14
N. 12345 / 8
O. 0.02 / 1 nm
P. AF309 0508A HARVEY OB 22
MAX FL WIND 63 KT NE QUAD 15:07:40Z
Ragged eyewall
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1134. Patrap 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.




Ike posts about ..."not yet" was spot on.

Never discount the nose of the ridge with a Major.

Lotsa untapped Sterno awaits it...TCHP wise.

Everyone with interests downstream must watch this one.

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1135. KennyNebraska 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TheNewGuy:
Should be an interesting DMAX if it's firing convection a few hours away from DMIN.



This system keeps getting more impressive with each picture.

She sure likes to pose, this one. A natural in front of the camera.
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1136. StormJunkie 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Seflhurricane:
so nothing intresting to report with 97L from recon


Not yet, they are still fishin' though.
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1138. nrtiwlnvragn 8:11 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.


All of us Floridians will be on pins and needles this coming week.
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1139. NCHurricane2009 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting WeatherNerdPR:
You know, we still have Harvey.


LOL....true. But I guess its because 97L is more controversial...(where is it centered...where could it end up)....it makes a more interesting meteorlogical discussion I suppose....
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1140. Seflhurricane 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting StormJunkie:


Not yet, they are still fishin' though.
anything intresting to report west winds ETC
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1141. SQUAWK 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Goldenblack:
Hey Ike, where did that come from?





Well, whoever it is they are using the XTRAP/not a model model.
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1142. atmoaggie 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Odd how only one GFS ensemble member has 97L up to ~30 N by hour 168 from 12 UTC.

(click fr full size)


GFS-operational has it to 30 N at 168 hours:


ECMF, well beyond 30 N at 168 hours:


What what about the ensemble members has them almost all producing a considerably slower track? (I am not coming up with an answer so far.)
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1143. TropicalWeatherGrl88 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting P451:


That depends what is throwing the models off.

They seem to have taken many invests and immediately ramped up their intensity to TS strength 24 hours later.

Is it the models at fault for being too aggressive or is there something going on in the atmosphere they are not programed to pick up on?

If the atmosphere was prime would these intensity forecasts have come true?

If so...why do the models think they have a prime atmosphere to work with while the invests continued to struggle in a poor environment?



AWESOME quetions!! I wonder the same exact things...
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1144. CaribBoy 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TheNewGuy:
Should be an interesting DMAX if it's firing convection a few hours away from DMIN.



Hard to believe there are no WEST WINDS within that!!!
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1145. scott39 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.
Quoting IKE:
FOR
NOW...WE HAVE USED THE LATEST COORDINATION POINTS AGREED UPON FROM
THE NHC AND EXTRAPOLATE ONE DAY FORWARD FOR THE NEW DAY 7 POINT.
THIS WILL PLACE IT OFF THE W COAST OF FL IN THE EASTERN GULF ON
SATURDAY....TO THE LEFT OF THE 12Z ECMWF/GFS POSITIONS.....

oh boy.
Thats starting to help the yet part....not in our favor!
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1146. Patrap 8:12 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
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1147. washingtonian115 8:13 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting TheNewGuy:
Should be an interesting DMAX if it's firing convection a few hours away from DMIN.

(Smacking lips and sniffs).I can smell the coconut from here.
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10612
1148. Levi32 8:13 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting weatherh98:


:) she can only pic one yall


The question is whether she likes a man who can predict her behavior, or if she enjoys one whom she can surprise :)
Member Since: November 24, 2005 Posts: 586 Comments: 25441
1149. dfwstormwatch 8:13 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
going back home already?
Member Since: July 31, 2011 Posts: 3 Comments: 625
1150. Seflhurricane 8:14 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting Levi32:


The question is whether she likes a man who can predict her behavior, or if she enjoys one whom she can surprise :)
levi does it look like 97L will be upgraded today ???
Member Since: July 14, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 2898
1151. ProgressivePulse 8:14 PM GMT on August 20, 2011    
Quoting nrtiwlnvragn:


All of us Floridians will be on pins and needles this coming week.



That's an understatement. Hopefully the islands rip it up, otherwise we could have some big issues. Big storm like that, even riding up the west coast would put the bulk of the state in the NE quad.
Member Since: August 19, 2005 Posts: 5 Comments: 4322

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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