Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Arctic sea ice loss tied to unusual jet stream patterns
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 2:40 PM GMT on April 02, 2012 +39
Earth has seen some highly unusual weather patterns over the past three years, and three new studies published this year point to Arctic sea loss as a potential important driver of some of these strange weather patterns. The record loss of sea ice the Arctic in recent years may be increasing winter cold surges and snowfall in Europe and North America, says a study by a research team led by Georgia Institute of Technology scientists Jiping Liu and Judith Curry. The paper, titled "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall", was published on Feb. 27, 2012 in the online early edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "Our study demonstrates that the decrease in Arctic sea ice area is linked to changes in the winter Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, said Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Tech, in a press release. "The circulation changes result in more frequent episodes of atmospheric blocking patterns, which lead to increased cold surges and snow over large parts of the northern continents."


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice in September 2007 reached its lowest extent on record, approximately 40% lower than when satellite records began in 1979. Sea ice loss in 2011 was virtually tied with the ice loss in 2007, despite weather conditions that were not as unusual in the Arctic. Image credit: University of Illinois Cryosphere Today.


Figure 2. The extent of Arctic sea ice loss in the summer July - August - September period in 2007 was about 1.4 million square miles (3.6 million square kilometers) greater than in 1980, according to the University of Illinois Cryosphere Today. For comparison, the lost ice coverage (orange colors) was equal to an area about 44% of the size of the contiguous U.S., or 71% of the non-Russian portion of Europe.

Summertime Arctic sea ice loss: 40% since 1980
The Arctic has seen a stunning amount of sea ice loss in recent years, due to melting and unfavorable winds that have pushed large amounts of ice out of the region. Forty percent of the sea ice was missing in September 2007, compared to September of 1980. This is an area equivalent to about 44% of the contiguous U.S., or 71% of the non-Russian portion of Europe. Such a large area of open water is bound to cause significant impacts on weather patterns, due to the huge amount of heat and moisture that escapes from the exposed ocean into the atmosphere over a multi-month period following the summer melt. The Georgia Tech study found that Arctic sea ice loss had caused a 20 - 60% weakening of the west-to-east belt of winds circling the pole in recent years, producing broader meanders in the jet stream that allowed it to get "stuck" in place 20 - 60% more often. When the jet stream gets stuck in place for a long period of time, we say a "blocking pattern" has set up. Since the jet stream marks the boundary between cold, Arctic air to the north, and warmer subtropical air to the south, areas on both sides of the jet are subjected to extended periods of unusually warm or cold weather during a blocking episode. Such a blocking pattern began on January 26, 2012 and lasted until February 11, bringing and exceptionally cold and snowy conditions to much of Europe, which lay on the cold side of an elongated loop of the jet stream that got stuck in place. Conversely, most of North America and northern Siberia saw unusually warm temperatures during this period, since they were on the warm side of the jet stream. Lead author Jiping Liu, a senior research scientist in the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Tech, added, "We think the recent snowy winters could be caused by the retreating Arctic ice altering atmospheric circulation patterns by weakening westerly winds, increasing the amplitude of the jet stream and increasing the amount of moisture in the atmosphere. These pattern changes enhance blocking patterns that favor more frequent movement of cold air masses to middle and lower latitudes, leading to increased heavy snowfall in Europe and the Northeast and Midwest regions of the United States." The paper concludes: "if Arctic sea ice continues as anticipated by climate modeling results, we speculate that episodes of the aforementioned circulation change will become more frequent, along with more persistent snowstorms over northern continents during winter."


Figure 3. Waiting for the warm-up after a rare snowfall in Italy during the February, 2012 European cold blast. Image credit: wunderphotographer cathykiro.

Two other studies link Arctic sea ice loss to atmospheric circulation changes
"The question is not whether sea ice loss is affecting the large-scale atmospheric circulation...it's how can it not?" That was the take-home message from Dr. Jennifer Francis of Rutgers University, in her talk "Evidence Linking Arctic Amplification to Extreme Weather in Mid-latitudes, presented at December's American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco. Dr. Francis presented new research that has just been published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, which shows that Arctic sea ice loss may significantly affect the upper-level atmospheric circulation, slowing its winds and increasing its tendency to make contorted high-amplitude loops. High-amplitude loops in the upper level wind pattern (and associated jet stream) increases the probability of persistent weather patterns in the Northern Hemisphere, potentially leading to extreme weather due to longer-duration cold spells, snow events, heat waves, flooding events, and drought conditions. Dr. Francis describes her work in a March 5, 2012 post on the Yale environment360 web site.

"Even if the current weather situation may seem to speak against it, the probability of cold winters with much snow in Central Europe rises when the Arctic is covered by less sea ice in summer." That was the opening sentence of a January 26, 2012 press release by a group of European scientists, led by Ralf Jaiser of the Alfred Wegener Institute in Germany. The words proved prescient, because that day marked the beginning of a brutal two-week cold air outbreak over Central and Eastern Europe that killed 823 people and did over $660 million in damage, according to preliminary estimates by insurance broker Aon Benfield. Dr. Jaiser's team, using modeling studies, showed that Arctic sea ice loss weakens upper-level winds over the Arctic in winter, allowing an increased chance of cold air surges over Europe.


Figure 4. Digging out in Maryland after "Snowmageddon" on February 4, 2010. Image credit: wunderphotographer chills.

Why was the winter of 2011 - 2012 so warm in the U.S.?
The winter of 2011 - 2012 in North America was unusually warm--the fourth warmest on record. The cold air spilling out of the Arctic during the winter was confined to Europe, unlike that previous two winters, which were unusually cold and snowy in the Eastern U.S. Obviously, loss of Arctic sea ice is not having the same impact each winter; such factors as El Niño/La Niña, the phase of the 11-year sunspot cycle, and the amount of snow cover in Siberia also have strong influences on the winter weather pattern that sets up. Cold air is less likely to spill out of the Arctic during a solar maximum, as we are now headed towards, so this factor may tend to reduce the odds of getting big cold blasts in the U.S. during the coming two winters. However, cold air may be more likely to spill out of the Arctic in winter due to the decades-long pattern of warming and cooling of Atlantic Ocean waters known as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). A 2012 study by NASA scientists found that the warm phase of the AMO (like we have been in since 1995) causes more instances of atmospheric blocking, where the jet stream gets "stuck" in place, leading to long periods of extreme weather. It will be interesting to see how all these factors play out in the coming years. If these three newly-published studies are correct, the U.S. should see more winters like 2010 - 2011 and 2009 - 2010 in coming decades, as Arctic sea ice continues to melt and affect global atmospheric circulation patterns more strongly.

References
Francis, J.A., and S.J. Vavrus (2012), "Evidence linking Arctic amplification to extreme weather in mid-latitudes," Geophysical Research Letters, 21 February, 2012.

Jaiser, R., K. Dethloff, D. Handorf, A. Rinke, J. Cohen (2012), Impact of sea ice cover changes on the Northern Hemisphere atmospheric winter circulation, Tellus A 2012, 64, 11595, DOI: 10.3402/tellusa.v64i0.11595

Liu et al. (2012), "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall", Proc. Natl. Academy of Sciences, Published online before print February 27, 2012, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1114910109

Jeff Masters
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451. caribbeantracker01 2:00 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:
#433

Obama= STUPID

i call him ocrapa for short :D


if i was to ask you why do you believe he is stupid what would be your response?
Member Since: May 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 442
452. ILwthrfan 2:05 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Oh no here comes the political onslaught...sigh

Can't we just all agree that both sides are terrible. ;)

Lincoln NWS. Gonna be an active day for me...:D



Member Since: February 2, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1033
453. aspectre 2:06 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Talk about stupid... Even after you've been banned at least once for it, still wanna insert 4-letter words into your political messages, eh SPLBeater?
Not clever, "hiding" the 4 letters within a name ain't clever at all.
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4846
454. ScottLincoln 2:06 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:


What's more, it's not just individual houses left over from 2 to 4 generations ago.

It's entire sub-divisions of brand new homes from maybe 1 to 15 years old, which the government allowed to be zoned and developed below flood zone.

It's as if the state and federal governments have been planning this for decades or something, just as a way to screw people over.


Lack of zoning laws seems to be much more common in these parts of Louisiana compared to other places that I have lived. We can keep referring to it being a problem caused by this "government" boogeyman, or we can accept the fact that those making the laws through government were elected by us, and by not wanting government to tell us where to build our houses/stores/factories, we've helped bring this problem upon ourselves.
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1592
455. RitaEvac 2:06 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
And then of course, someone will say something smart remark like, "owning a home is a priviledge".

Oh really?

Perhaps legally, but it's clear from the Declaration of Independence that everyone has a right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness".

Now how can one have liberty or pursuit of happiness in a civilization where more and more people can't even afford to own their own home? They are always a wage slave to someone else: the government, the bank, the landlord, somebody.


The 14th amendment forbids involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime (I.e. making prisoners do grounds keeping, etc, is legal.)

How much of a lower or middle class person's income must be consumed by mandatory taxes, fees, insurances, permits, etc, before they are considered an "Involuntary Servant"?

to a family that makes 100k or more, then 1 to 4k of a mandatory insurance cost probably doesn't matter much.

to a family that makes near or below mean income, which is a huge portion of people in the area being affected by this, because mean income in Louisiana is in most sectors 5k to 10k below the national mean, then its devastating. It's a 10% to maybe 15% wage garnishment for mean income earners.


Bottom line is to exterminate the poor and low end middle class. That's why college tuition keeps going thru the roof, they only want the rich to be educated. It's like soilent green but in a different way.
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
456. ILwthrfan 2:09 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Hey, ScottLincoln.

Do you work at a National Weather Service?
Member Since: February 2, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 1033
457. aspectre 2:09 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Morlocks and Eloi.
Member Since: August 21, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 4846
458. Neapolitan 2:18 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ScottLincoln:


Lack of zoning laws seems to be much more common in these parts of Louisiana compared to other places that I have lived. We can keep referring to it being a problem caused by this "government" boogeyman, or we can accept the fact that those making the laws through government were elected by us, and by not wanting government to tell us where to build our houses/stores/factories, we've helped bring this problem upon ourselves.
Indeed. When you vote anti-regulation types into office, you can't later complain that your were harmed by a lack of regulation. Caveat emptor.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11166
459. WxGeekVA 2:20 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:
#433

Obama= STUPID

i call him ocrapa for short :D


Dislike the man
But respect the office he holds
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3323
460. hydrus 2:22 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ncstorm:


Tri Care is just another insurance company with the same agendas as the other insurance companies, just because they are affiliated with military personnel, they still have the same processes in only wanting to put money before patient care. My family member is sick with a rare disease and he was only expected to live to 12 years of age, he is 21 and still defying the odds. However, when he turned 21, Tri care wanted to immediately stop covering him even though he was disabled and his father is a veteran. They as most insurance companies only see about cutting costs instead of looking out for patient care first. There is a serious problem with our health care issue and PRESIDENT Obama is only trying to help Americans who dont have health insurance and help the ones that do have it but are paying more money into premiums than into a car payment. Sorry for being off topic but this is a personal issue for me. A lot of people havent experienced first hand the dirty tricks that insurance companies prey on sick Americans.
Off topic or not, this is a good post. It is good that people ( WU bloggers too ) know what some of these insurance companies are doing to people who are very ill, and in need of help...........This should be interesting... DAY 4-8 CONVECTIVE OUTLOOK
NWS STORM PREDICTION CENTER NORMAN OK
0324 AM CDT TUE APR 03 2012

VALID 061200Z - 111200Z

...DISCUSSION...
ON D4...THE SERN U.S. UPPER LOW WILL MOVE FROM GA TO SC BY 00Z
SAT..THEN OFFSHORE. DESPITE LIKELY ONGOING RAIN...THERE IS A CHANCE
FOR DESTABILIZATION INLAND WITH SOME WIND AND HAIL THREAT OVER GA
AND SC HOWEVER...THIS THREAT SHOULD BE RELATIVELY MARGINAL AND SHORT
LIVED.

TO THE W...MODELS SHOW A JET MAX WITH THE WRN TROUGH EJECTING IN A
NEGATIVE TILT FASHION INTO THE NRN HIGH PLAINS BY 00Z SAT. AT THE
SURFACE...A WEAK LOW PRESSURE TROUGH WILL EXIST ACROSS THE HIGH
PLAINS WITH SELY SURFACE WINDS RESULTING IN A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF NWD
MOISTURE TRANSPORT WITH 40S F DEWPOINTS FROM NEB INTO SD...AND MID
50S F TO NEAR 60 F OVER OK. THE GFS SUGGESTS SRN PERIPHERY OF UPPER
HEIGHT FALLS WILL GRAZE THE CNTRL AND SRN PLAINS DRYLINE...RESULTING
IN SUPERCELLS CAPABLE OF LARGE HAIL. HOWEVER...THE ECMWF MODEL
SUGGESTS FLOW THAT FAR S WILL BE WEAKER. THEREFORE...A NARROW ZONE
OF SEVERE POTENTIAL IS POSSIBLE ALONG THE KS/OK/TX DRYLINE...BUT
POOR MOISTURE RETURN AND MODEL DIFFERENCES WILL PRECLUDE AN AREA AT
THIS TIME.

SOME ADDITIONAL LOW END SEVERE THREAT MAY PERSIST INTO SAT/D5 WITH
THE TRAILING COLD FRONT FROM NRN TX INTO SRN MO.

FROM D6 ONWARD...THE AFOREMENTIONED UPPER TROUGH WILL MERGE WITH AN
UPPER LOW OVER CNTRL CANADA...THEN IS LIKELY TO DIG A LARGE TROUGH
ACROSS THE ERN HALF OF THE CONUS FROM D7-D8 AND BEYOND.

..JEWELL.. 04/03/2012
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14314
462. hydrus 2:24 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ILwthrfan:
Hey, ScottLincoln.

Do you work at a National Weather Service?
Good morning to you..I think he does the T.V. thingy..:)...OCM..
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14314
464. RTSplayer 2:27 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting aspectre:
Morlocks and Eloi.


Oh, definitely.

I've pointed that out myself previously.

It's absolutely the case, and I was not joking.

I'm fully convinced that was no coincidence in writing, but a fully developed political metaphor, and it's perhaps more true at this point in history than at any time since slavery was abolished...
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 27 Comments: 875
465. Naga5000 2:30 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:
#433

Obama= STUPID

i call him ocrapa for short :D


Another well thought out, highly informed piece of political commentary.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 458
466. LargoFl 2:36 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting biff4ugo:
The federal agencies have done a good job on forecasting, emergency monitoring, and damage estimation planning, but not enough on smart redevelopment.
If they can pay a farmer not to grow pigs, why can't they pay a trailer park, to get out of the floodplain and hand over the development rights. I don't mind paying to fix a disaster one time, but NOT two.

There needs to be adaptive smart redevelopment as the climate changes and/or growth continues.
I kinda agree with your point there, building on a known flood plain should be stopped, then again they want every slice of dirt, covered in concrete so they can get more taxes and then they get their pay raises..
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22426
467. ScottLincoln 2:38 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Some stawberry farms here in GA are worried that their strawberries, which are open to the public for picking in May and June, may not be picked this year, since they are now ready for harvesting and should be done in 4 to 6 weeks, at which point kids will still be in school. They may have to go pick them all themselves and the public may just miss out.


Heck, southeast Louisiana strawberries have been getting picked for several weeks now. Good strawberries... ~$1.50/pint.
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1592
468. hydrus 2:38 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting Naga5000:


Another well thought out, highly informed piece of political commentary.
It does sound like something a thirteen year old would say, otherwise that post would have troll written on it.
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14314
469. SPLbeater 2:39 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
ECMWF has a small low sitting south of the Chagos Arch islands in about 8 or 9 days...Wonder if the forecast will make it into a TC in next few days
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3954
471. hydrus 2:41 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting percylives:


I don't know where you're getting your forecast info from but if you are correct it will be a disaster for the local orchards as many of the trees and bushes have already bloomed and are now making frost-susceptible fruit.

The impatient gardeners who have already planted their tomatoes and other summer plants will also take a real beating.

Finally, since many of the retail plant outlets here in VA now have there summer plants out of the greenhouses and on display, they are susceptible to any freezing weather. The gardeners may find replacement plants unavailable.

Could be a real mess.
I am worried too..Did you see this.?Link
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14314
472. GeorgiaStormz 2:41 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ScottLincoln:


Heck, southeast Louisiana strawberries have been getting picked for several weeks now. Good strawberries... ~$1.50/pint.


Here they are $10 for a gallon bucket, and few are picking them. Even less people after spring break.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 7165
473. Naga5000 2:41 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting hydrus:
It does sound like something a thirteen year old would say, otherwise that post would have troll written on it.


You read my mind.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 458
474. LargoFl 2:41 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Some stawberry farms here in GA are worried that their strawberries, which are open to the public for picking in May and June, may not be picked this year, since they are now ready for harvesting and should be done in 4 to 6 weeks, at which point kids will still be in school. They may have to go pick them all themselves and the public may just miss out.
be careful of this weekend, a cold front is coming maybe even a freeze down into georgia they are hinting..
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22426
475. reedzone 2:42 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
SPLbeater, this is a very liberal blog, please watch what you say when it comes to religion or the "Anointed One".
Member Since: July 1, 2008 Posts: 13 Comments: 7247
476. ScottLincoln 2:43 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ILwthrfan:
Hey, ScottLincoln.

Do you work at a National Weather Service?


http://www.wunderground.com/blog/ScottLincoln/sho w.html
:)
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1592
477. SPLbeater 2:44 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
RTS...idk why im responding, but...

I aint in a public school because of the trash they are teaching kids, and how some teachers arent doing ANYTHING about students behavior. i dont want to hear the cursing and and the inappropriate talk in public school.

That sir, is why I am homeschooled :D
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3954
478. LargoFl 2:45 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
FLOOD STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LITTLE ROCK AR
928 AM CDT TUE APR 3 2012

...FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN LITTLE ROCK...THE FLOOD
WARNING CONTINUES FOR THE FOLLOWING RIVER IN ARKANSAS...

OUACHITA RIVER AT THATCHER LOCK AND DAM NEAR CALION AFFECTING
CALHOUN...UNION AND BRADLEY COUNTIES


RIVER FORECASTS ARE BASED ON CURRENT CONDITIONS AND RAINFALL
FORECASTED TO OCCUR OVER THE NEXT 12 HOURS. DURING PERIODS OF
FLOODING...EVENING FORECASTS ARE REISSUED WITH UPDATED RAINFALL
FORECASTS.

OBSERVED AND FORECASTED STAGE DATA PLOTS ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR
ADVANCED HYDROLOGIC PREDICTION SERVICE WEB PAGE AT...
WWW.SRH.NOAA.GOV/LZK
UNDER THE CURRENT CONDITIONS SECTION...SELECT RIVER AND LAKES AHPS.


PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

SAFETY MESSAGE...REMEMBER TO TURN AROUND...DONT DROWN
DO NOT DRIVE CARS THROUGH FLOODED AREAS.

EVERYONE WITH PROPERTY OR OTHER INTEREST ALONG STREAMS AND RIVERS
SHOULD REMAIN ALERT TO CHANGING WEATHER FORECAST. SHOULD CONDITIONS
CHANGE...LOOK FOR RIVER FORECAST OR FLOOD WARNINGS FOR USE IN MAKING
INFORMED DECISIONS TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY.


&&

ARC011-013-139-040528-
/O.CON.KLZK.FL.W.0021.000000T0000Z-000000T0000Z/
/CALA4.1.ER.120321T1915Z.120330T1200Z.000000T0000 Z.NO/
928 AM CDT TUE APR 3 2012

THE FLOOD WARNING CONTINUES FOR
THE OUACHITA RIVER AT THATCHER LOCK AND DAM NEAR CALION.
* UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE...OR UNTIL THE WARNING IS CANCELLED.
* AT 7:00 AM TUESDAY THE WATER ELEVATION WAS 84.1 FEET.
* MINOR FLOODING IS OCCURRING AND MINOR FLOODING IS FORECAST.
* FLOOD ELEVATION IS 79.0 FEET.
* FORECAST...THE RIVER WILL CONTINUE TO FALL TO AN ELEVATION OF 83.5
FEET BY WEDNESDAY MORNING.



&&


FLD OBSERVED FORECAST 7AM
LOCATION STG STG DAY TIME WED THU FRI SAT SUN

OUACHITA RIVER
THATCHER L 79 84.1 TUE 07 AM 83.5 83.0 82.4 81.8 81.2

$$
Member Since: August 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22426
479. StormTracker2K 2:45 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Boy it is going to be interesting this afternoon across C & N FL especailly with an upper air disturbance coming in from the Gulf.

Mid Late Afternoon Storms Interior
Mostly clear skies and light winds will allow both east and west coast sea breezes to form and push toward the middle of the state. The sea breezes are expected to collide over an area from around Lake George and Pierson in Northwest Volusia south to the Orlando area and Lake Kissimmee. Colder temperatures aloft at around 15, 000 feet will enhance the potential for storms that will be capable of producing strong wind gusts, small hail and frequent lightning from late afternoon through the sunset time frame.

Posted by Bob Wimmer


Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
480. SteveDa1 2:46 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
I find this interesting...

Does anyone hold a clue as to what might have been causing the delay (compared to average) of the start of the melting season for the past couple of years? Also, this year seems to be no exception.

This probably has no significant effect on the melting season since last year's September extent was very close to the record low. I actually still strongly believe the Arctic ice extent will be extremely close to the record low this year for obvious reasons (ie: low volume, plenty of one-year ice). I just find it peculiar that the melting of the ice seems to be delayed by a probable cause...

What if in one of the next couple of years, the ice starts to melt very early as opposed to recent years? Will the record low get obliterated by as much as 500,000km^2 or even 750,000km^2? (questions thrown in the air... no need for an answer)

Member Since: October 17, 2006 Posts: 59 Comments: 1057
481. Naga5000 2:47 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:
RTS...idk why im responding, but...

I aint in a public school because of the trash they are teaching kids, and how some teachers arent doing ANYTHING about students behavior. i dont want to hear the cursing and and the inappropriate talk in public school.

That sir, is why I am homeschooled :D


Way to overgeneralize.
Member Since: June 1, 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 458
482. RitaEvac 2:47 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ScottLincoln:


http://www.wunderground.com/blog/ScottLincoln/sho w.html
:)


So they have ESRI ArcMap at the NWS?
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
483. ScottLincoln 2:48 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting LargoFl:
I kinda agree with your point there, building on a known flood plain should be stopped, then again they want every slice of dirt, covered in concrete so they can get more taxes and then they get their pay raises..


This is the same state (Louisiana) where people were allowed to build at elevations lower than the emergency spillway of a lake that was built in the 1950s for flood control/water supply. Now when their homes flood, it can be called "flooding" even though the filling of a flood control reservoir is typically just called "flood control." There is now a push to construct a new spillway at the reservoir to let more water through and minimize the chance of it rising high enough to flood homes. Of course allowing more water through will reduce its effectiveness at being a flood control reservoir.

Somewhere along the chain, someone probably dropped the ball. Unfortunate for residents to be caught in on it nonetheless.
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1592
484. RitaEvac 2:48 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting StormTracker2K:
Boy it is going to be interesting this afternoon across C & N FL especailly with an upper air disturbance coming in from the Gulf.

src="http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/rtimages/mlb/ adas/convective_parms.gif">


Mid Late Afternoon Storms Interior
Mostly clear skies and light winds will allow both east and west coast sea breezes to form and push toward the middle of the state. The sea breezes are expected to collide over an area from around Lake George and Pierson in Northwest Volusia south to the Orlando area and Lake Kissimmee. Colder temperatures aloft at around 15, 000 feet will enhance the potential for storms that will be capable of producing strong wind gusts, small hail and frequent lightning from late afternoon through the sunset time frame.

Posted by Bob Wimmer


Actually... watch TX later today ;)
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
485. GeorgiaStormz 2:49 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:


right...




Point of advice:

Quit your home schooling and enroll yourself in a real school somewhere, so you can actually learn something.






So i suppose i know nothing since i never went to public school.

So soooo Sad :(
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 7165
486. ScottLincoln 2:50 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RitaEvac:


So they have ESRI ArcMap at the NWS?


Yes. I use it heavily. At least several times a week, if not several times a day.
Member Since: September 28, 2002 Posts: 3 Comments: 1592
487. StormTracker2K 2:53 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RitaEvac:


Actually... watch TX later today ;)


This is the same disturbance that brought you rain yesterday.
Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651
488. RitaEvac 2:54 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting ScottLincoln:


Yes. I use it heavily. At least several times a week, if not several times a day.


I need to contact Houston NWS, I live right near it. Wonder if NWS actually have full time GIS staff, do they?
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
489. SPLbeater 2:54 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting reedzone:
SPLbeater, this is a very liberal blog, please watch what you say when it comes to religion or the "Anointed One".


i could tell this was a liberal blog a month after i joined. I guess thats why i am seen as the 'bad guy' to alot of people here. Makes me wonder sometimes. But my family enjoys my blogs so im still here, lol
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3954
490. SPLbeater 2:56 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:



So i suppose i know nothing since i never went to public school.

So soooo Sad :(


are you homeschooled?
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3954
491. Neapolitan 2:56 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SteveDa1:
I find this interesting...

Does anyone hold a clue as to what might have been causing the delay (compared to average) in the start of the melting season for the past couple of years? This year seems to be no exception as well.

This probably has no significant effect on the melting season since last year's September extent was very close to the record low. I actually still strongly believe we will be very close to the record low this year for obvious reasons. I just find it peculiar that the melting of the ice seems to be delayed by a probable cause...

What if in one of the next couple of years, the ice starts to melt very early as opposed to recent years? Will the record low get obliterated by as much as 500,000km^2? (questions thrown in the air... no need for an answer)

Here's a recent conjecture from NASA's Earth Observatory:

"On average, Arctic sea ice has historically peaked around March 6, but the maximum extent has tended to occur later in the month in recent years. The cause for the later peak is unknown, but NSIDC's Walt Meier suspects it might be related to the minimum sea ice extents that occur each September.

"There are constraints on how long Arctic sea ice can keep growing in late March," Meier says, citing springtime sunlight and rising temperatures. "But since Arctic sea ice has melted so much in the summers, it could be that the ice has more room to grow at the end of the season." Over the last decade, Arctic sea ice extents in September have set record lows three times, and the 2011 minimum nearly tied the 2007 record low."

Meier points out something else about Arctic sea ice extent. "The nine lowest maximum extents have occurred in the last nine years, since 2004," he says.

Although Arctic sea ice has continued to grow later in the season, the ice has been thin—only about 10 to 30 centimeters (4 to 12 inches) thick at most, Meier explains. "So it will all melt away very quickly. I don’t expect the late-season growth spurt to have a big effect on sea ice extent next summer."
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11166
492. CJ5 2:57 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RitaEvac:


Bottom line is to exterminate the poor and low end middle class. That's why college tuition keeps going thru the roof, they only want the rich to be educated. It's like soilent green but in a different way.


That is absurd.
Member Since: July 4, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1709
493. GeorgiaStormz 2:58 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


are you homeschooled?


yes.
Member Since: February 11, 2012 Posts: 0 Comments: 7165
495. CJ5 3:01 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
BR>
BTW, if this is legal under the U.S. and state constitutions, then there's no good reason "Obama care" wouldn't be legal.

Force you to buy flood insurance, force you to buy public medical insurance, what's the difference?


...


You are not forced, you can move.
Member Since: July 4, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1709
496. CJ5 3:05 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
Perhaps legally, but it's clear from the Declaration of Independence that everyone has a right to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness".

Now how can one have liberty or pursuit of happiness in a civilization where more and more people can't even afford to own their own home? They are always a wage slave to someone else: the government, the bank, the landlord, somebody.


The 14th amendment forbids involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime (I.e. making prisoners do grounds keeping, etc, is legal.)

How much of a lower or middle class person's income must be consumed by mandatory taxes, fees, insurances, permits, etc, before they are considered an "Involuntary Servant"?

to a family that makes 100k or more, then 1 to 4k of a mandatory insurance cost probably doesn't matter much.

to a family that makes near or below mean income, which is a huge portion of people in the area being affected by this, because mean income in Louisiana is in most sectors 5k to 10k below the national mean, then its devastating. It's a 10% to maybe 15% wage garnishment for mean income earners.


People are not responsible nor are they independent. They have allowed the government to grow so much that it requires taxes and fees to provide the services demanded.

Housing is not a right and has nothing to do with "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". That phrase is based on individuals having the freedom to pursue those ideals. However, most people want the government to provide those things and thus where we find ourself today.
Member Since: July 4, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 1709
497. RitaEvac 3:08 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting CJ5:


People are not responsible nor are they independent. They have allowed the government to grow so much that it requires taxes and fees to provide the services demanded.

Housing is not a right and has nothing to do with "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". That phrase is based on individuals having the freedom to pursue those ideals. However, most people want the government to provide those things and thus where we find ourself today.


I agree on that part
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
499. RitaEvac 3:09 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:


No you can't, not really.

Why?

Because who else would buy the house when you try to sell it?

Who is going to buy a house that is going to be a liability forever?

See the problem?

The "you can move" is a cop-out and in most cases just a flat out lie.

It costs money to move, and most homeowner's life savings and entire financial reputation is tied in their home, and like I said, you an't sell something that is going to be a financial liability.

A person would be better off renting for the rest of their life, than to buy one of these homes, because the home is always going to be a liability, not an asset, and so what's the point?

"You can move": nice theory.

In reality, you can try to move, fail to make a sale, then get foreclosed and lose everything you've got either way anyway.

It's win/win for the government and banks. Lose for everyone else.


Government will buy you out whatever it's appraised as
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8912
500. entrelac 3:10 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Thought this was interesting considering the current topics of discussion -

Republican meteorologist Paul Douglas: conservatives should embrace climate science
Member Since: September 18, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 232
501. StormTracker2K 3:22 PM GMT on April 03, 2012    
Quoting entrelac:
Thought this was interesting considering the current topics of discussion -

Republican meteorologist Paul Douglas: conservatives should embrace climate science



Great post! Like I said eventhough I don't agree with everything Obama has during his first term he is still the better guy for job as the republicans that are running are not the brightest.
Member Since: October 26, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2651

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Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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