Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Grading NHC's Tropical Weather Outlook
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 4:33 PM GMT on June 06, 2007 +4
The National Hurricane Center's Tropical Weather Outlook (TWO) is a text-only product that rates the potential of disturbed areas of weather to turn into tropical depressions or tropical storms. The outlooks are issued four times daily, at 5am, 11am, 5pm, and 11pm EDT. I've found them to be an excellent guide to what to watch out for. But how accurate are these outlooks? To find out, Jamie Rhome and Dan Brown, who are two of the hurricane specialists that write the Tropical Weather Outlook, verified the accuracy of all the outlooks issued in 2005 and 2006. They used a three-tiered classification of threat based on the following language appearing in the TWO:

High: "A tropical depression could form tonight or the next day."

Medium: "Some slow development is possible."

Low: "Tropical storm formation is not expected."


These forecasts were then graded by looking at the "best track" database of Atlantic hurricanes and seeing if a tropical depression formed within 48 hours of each TWO issued. The results, shown below, reveal that for the Atlantic in the years 2005 and 2006:

-When the TWO said, "A tropical depression could form tonight of the next day," a depression formed within 48 hours 53% of the time.

-When the TWO said, "Some slow development is possible," a tropical depression formed within 48 hours about 20% of the time.

-When the TWO said, "Tropical storm formation is not expected," a tropical depression formed within 48 hours only 3% of the time.




Figure 1. Verification of the Atlantic and Eastern Pacific Tropical Weather Outlooks issued in 2005 and 2006. Image credit: Jamie Rhome and Dan Brown, National Hurricane Center.

Jeff Masters
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201. FormerFloridian 11:05 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Posted By: Littleninjagrl at 7:03 PM EDT on June 06, 2007.


Posted By: Vanagew at 10:59 PM GMT on June 06, 2007.

The shear is predicted to be highly favourable for development in 48 hours time.

So how come this says no develop ment is likely on 48 hrs? http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/ABNT20.RAW.html Just asking cuz now i'm confused.


Because nothing is going to develop.
202. JGreco 11:15 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
"So how come this says no develop ment is likely on 48 hrs? http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/ABNT20.RAW.html Just asking cuz now i'm confused."

After the 48hr period of no development the situation changes is what he is implying.
Member Since: September 22, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 322
203. Vanagew 11:17 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Posted By: Littleninjagrl at 11:03 PM GMT on June 06, 2007.


Posted By: Vanagew at 10:59 PM GMT on June 06, 2007.

The shear is predicted to be highly favourable for development in 48 hours time.

So how come this says no develop ment is likely on 48 hrs? http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/ABNT20.RAW.html Just asking cuz now i'm confused.


Because there are no storms over the concerned regions. Just because shear is low doesn't mean that a disturbance will form.
205. RL3AO 11:26 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Storms are starting to pick up in South Dakota.
206. MZT 11:30 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Flooding in Oman

Qurum flood
Member Since: September 24, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 775
207. Patrap 11:33 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Surge,..the storm surge is the thing one has to avoid. Especially in an area where it never happens. Remarkable scene.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111297
210. 1900hurricane 11:39 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Wow! Oman is really gettin' it bad!
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 43 Comments: 10359
211. 1900hurricane 11:39 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
That's got to be at least a 10 foot surge!
Member Since: August 2, 2006 Posts: 43 Comments: 10359
212. EllistonVA 11:46 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Lots of local info on what's happening on the ground with Gonu: GulfNews.com
213. Fl30258713 11:47 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
looks like a low may be developing at 24N 87W


24N 87W
Member Since: July 24, 2006 Posts: 1 Comments: 976
214. Fl30258713 11:51 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
I'm very interested to see the next QuikSCAT image for GOM

Here is the visible loop for GOM http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/gmex/loop-vis.html

Member Since: July 24, 2006 Posts: 1 Comments: 976
216. hurricane23 11:56 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Folks there will be no development of any kind across the gulf tonight or tommorow.Maybe some slight chances during the middle of next week as some models are indicateing windshear will drop some which might allow some development but even that is questionable at the moment.

Windshear values presently are running anywere from 40-60kts across the gulf.Adrian
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217. sullivanweather 11:57 PM GMT on June 06, 2007    
Well well well.

It looks like Gonu didn't make landfall at hurricane strength after all...
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218. Fl30258713 12:00 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
I'm just looking at what the clouds are doing. If it doesn't develope,great.
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220. hurricane23 12:00 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
For those intrested in looking at some hurricane videos now that things are quite feel free to check out my youtube page.
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222. Fl30258713 12:01 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Yep, you might have to fall on your sword for fake pics. :-)
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223. sullivanweather 12:03 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
For all the hype of the unprecedented about to occur it sure didn't pan out.
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225. Fl30258713 12:04 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
It was a Cat 5, it caught that dry air. Those folks don't know how lucky they are with those 90+ SST's.
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228. Fl30258713 12:10 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Here is latest Quikscat.

24N 87W
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229. KoritheMan 12:17 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Eh...? That thing in the GoM could develop if shear just abaits to about 20-30 knots. We saw what Barry did in the face of 20-40 knot shear. It's not something we can just turn our eyes off and ignore, even if the models aren't forecasting tropical cyclone development.
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231. Patrap 12:20 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Latest MIMIC showing Gonu 's impact on Oman.Link
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233. 4Gaia 12:31 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Forget about it FL. After Katrina, I was sent pictures of a "sixteen foot alligator" that was captured in the french quarter. The "gator" was actually a croc, and was being loaded into a vintage military vehicle by people in African garb and the tags on the vehicles weren't even in our alphabet I dont know why people forward fakes after an event, But yours looked legit.
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 8
235. groundman 12:35 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    


Migrant? Doesn't sound like it to me, Groundman! Hey, it's the "Hospitality State" -- we hope you've felt welcome. We certainly appreciate all that came from near and far to help in the recovery efforts!!! Appreciate it, BIG TIME!

Of course, the real MS qualifications are: eating turnip greens, cornbread and sweet tea....lol, you many indeed qualify! Thanks much for your help, too!


Thanks, we have made many friends and many memories here. Like I said most people are VERY appreciative.
Curteous is the name of the game down here, I've seen men walk 20 ft to open a door for me and carry a 5 lb package out of the store!! The 5 lb. package is rather embarassing. LOL
And people down here will let someone out in traffic and I try to repay the favor when driving.
Don't know about the turnip greens, I'm more a grits person. LOL

236. KoritheMan 12:38 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
NHC has nothing to say about the SE Gulf:

SCATTERED
MODERATE CONVECTION IS ALONG THE COAST OF THE YUCATAN PENINSULA
FROM 21N-22N BETWEEN 86W-88W. ELSEWHERE...SCATTERED MODERATE TO
ISOLATED STRONG CONVECTION IS OVER W CUBA...THE SE GULF...AND
FLORIDA FROM 22N-29N BETWEEN 80W-85W.


I'm not concerned about the SE Gulf... I'm concerned about that thunderstorm area southeast of New Orleans. If it persists into tommorow, then what?
Member Since: March 7, 2007 Posts: 408 Comments: 15424
237. Fl30258713 12:43 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Both those areas are over warm eddys

Conditions at 42003 as of
(2:49 pm CDT)
1949 GMT on 06/06/2007:

Wind Direction (WDIR): SSE ( 150 deg true )
Wind Speed (WSPD): 19.4 kts
Wind Gust (GST): 21.4 kts
Wave Height (WVHT): 4.9 ft
Dominant Wave Period (DPD): 6 sec
Average Period (APD): 4.4 sec
Mean Wave Direction (MWD): SSE ( 150 deg true )
Atmospheric Pressure (PRES): 29.94 in
Pressure Tendency (PTDY): -0.02 in ( Falling )
Air Temperature (ATMP): 78.6 °F
Water Temperature (WTMP): 82.0 °F
Dew Point (DEWP): 74.7 °F
Heat Index (HEAT): 81.9 °F


Conditions at 42040 as of
(6:50 pm CDT)
2350 GMT on 06/06/2007:

Wind Direction (WDIR): SSE ( 160 deg true )
Wind Speed (WSPD): 13.6 kts
Wind Gust (GST): 17.5 kts
Wave Height (WVHT): 2.6 ft
Dominant Wave Period (DPD): 5 sec
Average Period (APD): 3.8 sec
Mean Wave Direction (MWD): SSE ( 150 deg true )
Atmospheric Pressure (PRES): 29.88 in
Pressure Tendency (PTDY): -0.04 in ( Falling )
Air Temperature (ATMP): 79.9 °F
Water Temperature (WTMP): 81.3 °F
Dew Point (DEWP): 71.6 °F
Heat Index (HEAT): 83.5 °F




http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/maps/Florida.shtml
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238. Patrap 12:47 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
OMG!..its over a Warm Eddy!
7 Link
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239. HurricaneFCast 12:57 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Let's not forget the 50kt Wind Shear. Nothing will form out of either of those AOI's, and i shouldn't even call them AOI's it's just more like a broad area of thunderstorms.

a
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
240. 4Gaia 12:58 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Did somebody say Greens Cornbread And Sweet Tea? SIGN ME UP!!!
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 8
241. Patrap 12:59 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
GOM WV 4-panel..loop Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111297
242. Patrap 1:01 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
GOM radar..20 frame loop..Link
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111297
243. 4Gaia 1:02 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
What are the SST'S in the Pacific looking like?
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244. KoritheMan 1:02 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
I am not so sure this thing won't develop if shear dies down a bit. Shear is one of the more unpredictable factors in the weather, so you should not disqualify this thing. Granted, it's a very low probability that it'll develop (less than 5% I'd say), but if it persists into tommorow morning, and especially tommorow night, be concerned.
Member Since: March 7, 2007 Posts: 408 Comments: 15424
246. 4Gaia 1:05 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Wait! Dont forget shrimp & grits!!!
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 8
247. HurricaneFCast 1:08 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Kori- This thing will not develop. Wind Shear is predictable.. Obviously with the High dominating the Eastern U.S. right now, that shear is hardly going anywhere, when the 50kt shear moves out, 30-40kt shear will move in, which still will prevent any tropical development. It's June, in July or August, this would definitely be an AOI. Not now, not with 50kt wind shear, the close proximity to land, and the lack of heat potential.
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
250. 4Gaia 1:19 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
OH MY GOD!!! Egypt has flooded!!OH MY GOD
Member Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 8
251. HurricaneFCast 1:19 AM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Conditions are not forecast to become favorable for development in the GOM until about 36-48 hours from now. That area of thunderstorms will be long torn apart and gone east by then. We could, however, see a similar event occur in a few days in the GOM when conditions are favorable. We should watch for that. It would probably be around Friday or Saturday, Then conditions would be favorable and any convective activity should be watched closely.
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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