Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Grading NHC's Tropical Weather Outlook
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 4:33 PM GMT on June 06, 2007 +4
The National Hurricane Center's Tropical Weather Outlook (TWO) is a text-only product that rates the potential of disturbed areas of weather to turn into tropical depressions or tropical storms. The outlooks are issued four times daily, at 5am, 11am, 5pm, and 11pm EDT. I've found them to be an excellent guide to what to watch out for. But how accurate are these outlooks? To find out, Jamie Rhome and Dan Brown, who are two of the hurricane specialists that write the Tropical Weather Outlook, verified the accuracy of all the outlooks issued in 2005 and 2006. They used a three-tiered classification of threat based on the following language appearing in the TWO:

High: "A tropical depression could form tonight or the next day."

Medium: "Some slow development is possible."

Low: "Tropical storm formation is not expected."


These forecasts were then graded by looking at the "best track" database of Atlantic hurricanes and seeing if a tropical depression formed within 48 hours of each TWO issued. The results, shown below, reveal that for the Atlantic in the years 2005 and 2006:

-When the TWO said, "A tropical depression could form tonight of the next day," a depression formed within 48 hours 53% of the time.

-When the TWO said, "Some slow development is possible," a tropical depression formed within 48 hours about 20% of the time.

-When the TWO said, "Tropical storm formation is not expected," a tropical depression formed within 48 hours only 3% of the time.




Figure 1. Verification of the Atlantic and Eastern Pacific Tropical Weather Outlooks issued in 2005 and 2006. Image credit: Jamie Rhome and Dan Brown, National Hurricane Center.

Jeff Masters
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351. WPBHurricane05 5:06 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
It appears to be associated with a frontal system. There is no LLC and shear is high.
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
352. TheCaneWhisperer 5:06 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
It's been nearly stationary for most of the day! Some of the models retrograde back west!
353. ClearH2OFla 5:10 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
That would be good
354. Jedkins 5:12 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
hmmm I'm a bit disappointed today, there is virtually no vertical development with the clouds here today, the cumulous clouds look as if they are under a subsidence cap, very strange...

I hope today won't be a bust for me as well, I live in pinnelas county, yesterday the problem was high clouds which kept numerous storms well inland and south.


Where as today appears storms may not be very numerous anywhere, despite lingering high moisture levels with PWATS around 2.00 in and relatively cold air aloft, I see clouds that have no vertical motion at all yet and its already 1:00 PM here.

Its all possible that whats limiting activity is leftover convective debris from late night gulf convection and storms last night along the east coast.

Usually though thats only a temporary limitation and storms just get a really late start, which in this case could be better because it would allow more heating which in the end I believe we would still see a lot of storms today.

However if it turns out that isn't the factor I'm seeing supressing development then its something I'm not sure of and forecasters are blind to which would severely limit convection.

Of course lets just hope its some boundy layer stability from gulf convection and east Floridas massive rains last night, because by later in the day the storms have no problem overcoming it.
355. weathers4me 5:29 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
jed: Very interesting. Thank you for the information. It definately seems like something is inhibiting the vertical stacking necessary for pops. We have not seen any significant rain here on the coast (near the skyway bridge) since Barry. Even then it was light rain perhaps 1/2 inch to 1 inch. The only thing going for us is the heating of the day. Hopefully one will pop over us and move E.
Member Since: May 24, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 112
356. susieq110 5:37 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Looks like there is some development of that "thing" off the coast of Florida. It really looks intreating on the visable loop.
Member Since: June 6, 2007 Posts: 10 Comments: 92
357. PensacolaNative 5:37 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Hello all. This is my first time on this blog and would like to know what you all think about the NCEP GFS future cast for Florida. It looks like two low pressure systems hitting Florida toward the end of this month... Tropical Storm? Hurricane? http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/00/fp0_336.shtml
Member Since: June 7, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 24
358. stormybil 5:40 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
does the blob east of fla. have a chance to become a td
359. WPBHurricane05 5:43 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE MIAMI FL
139 PM EDT THU JUN 7 2007

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN MIAMI HAS ISSUED A

* SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING FOR...
EASTERN BROWARD COUNTY IN SOUTH FLORIDA.

* UNTIL 245 PM EDT

* AT 139 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A
SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING PENNY SIZE HAIL...AND
DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60 MPH. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED 11
MILES NORTHWEST OF CORAL SPRINGS...AND MOVING SOUTHEAST AT 5 TO 10
MPH.

* THE STORM WILL AFFECT...
CORAL SPRINGS
MARGATE
SUNRISE
SAWGRASS MILLS MALL

SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS CAN PRODUCE DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60
MPH...LARGE HAIL...DEADLY LIGHTNING...AND VERY HEAVY RAINFALL. STAY
INSIDE AWAY FROM WINDOWS UNTIL THE STORM HAS PASSED.
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
360. weathers4me 5:48 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Here is the 2:00 report from NHC on that blob

A TROPICAL WAVE HAS BEEN REPOSITIONED ALONG 47W/48W S OF 11N
ESTIMATED TO BE MOVING W AROUND 15 KT. AS MENTIONED IN THIS
MORNING'S DISCUSSION...SATELLITE HOVMOLLER DIAGRAMS SUGGEST THE
FEATURE IS MUCH FURTHER W THAN PREVIOUS THOUGHT. THESE DIAGRAMS
SHOW GOOD WWD CONTINUITY IN THE CONVECTIVE BURSTS WHICH BEGAN TO
FADE NEAR 35W ON JUNE 4TH. BASED ON EXTRAPOLATION AND A NOTABLE
PERTURBATION IN THE ITCZ SEEN ON VIS PICTURES...THIS PSN APPEARS
REASONABLE. SCATTERED SHOWERS ARE WITHIN 120 NM OF THE AXIS.
Member Since: May 24, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 112
361. WPBHurricane05 5:50 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Here is the 2:00 report from NHC on that blob


The information you posted is on a tropical wave in the central Atlantic.
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
362. TheCaneWhisperer 5:53 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
For Jedkins! Weatherguy03 has a probable cause in his blog for your lack of T-Storms. I believe your in the North Fla area. Could be giving a heads up that the low is forming and pulling down dry air! Just a thought.
363. WPBHurricane05 5:53 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Link You can clearly see here that the convection over the bahamas is associated with a low over Nova Scotia.
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364. weathers4me 5:53 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Sorry. You are right. Thanks for clarifying. Have you seen the burst of showers south east of FL?
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365. ClearH2OFla 5:56 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
WPB but that front is pulling it out east correct
366. fldoughboy 5:57 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
The death toll from Gonu is 20 according to the Weather Channel. Far better than I would have thought.
367. WPBHurricane05 5:58 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
That is correct ClearH20Fla.
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368. stormybil 5:59 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
we might have 2 systems to watch one is east of fla. the other one is by the bahamas does any have a chance to develope according to the gfsx it looks like a yes anyone know ?
369. ClearH2OFla 5:59 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
It looks like we here in Florida are clear for another week to two weeks
370. WPBHurricane05 6:00 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
TROPICAL WEATHER OUTLOOK
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
1130 AM EDT THU JUN 7 2007

FOR THE NORTH ATLANTIC...CARIBBEAN SEA AND THE GULF OF MEXICO...

TROPICAL CYCLONE FORMATION IS NOT EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

$$
FORECASTER BROWN
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
371. Jedkins 6:01 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
jed: Very interesting. Thank you for the information. It definately seems like something is inhibiting the vertical stacking necessary for pops. We have not seen any significant rain here on the coast (near the skyway bridge) since Barry. Even then it was light rain perhaps 1/2 inch to 1 inch. The only thing going for us is the heating of the day. Hopefully one will pop over us and move E.


light rain? Umm not to be critical but barry produced a minimum off 3 inches, with some places up to 6.00 inches like largo recorded, as well as my rain guage also recorded 6.00 here in central pinnelas county.



But don't worry, we are transitioning into a much better pattern, lets look at the glass half full, there is absoluelt no fire threat through the entire week and all of south Florida and about 20 to 30% of central Florida has cut the deficit completely for the year.

I wouldn't worry too much, remember, theres hope the convective inhibition today is from convective debris from gulf storms as well as storms leftover from last nightand convection may turn out numerous, it will just take longer.

Really a tough call if storms will be numerous after all or not today.
372. Patrap 6:04 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Scattered SHowers and T-storms... Link
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373. TheCaneWhisperer 6:08 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
WPB, that area isn't going anywhere with High Pressure parked behind and above it!
374. PensacolaNative 6:09 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Hello all. This is my first time on this blog and would like to know what you all think about the NCEP GFS future cast for Florida. It looks like two low pressure systems hitting Florida toward the end of this month... Tropical Storm? Hurricane?
Member Since: June 7, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 24
375. Patrap 6:10 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
We have the Cool side to the left..and the Hot side to the right..and the severe to fire later..in between.Link
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376. PensacolaNative 6:10 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/00/index_slp_l_loop.shtml
Member Since: June 7, 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 24
377. WPBHurricane05 6:11 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Hello all. This is my first time on this blog and would like to know what you all think about the NCEP GFS future cast for Florida. It looks like two low pressure systems hitting Florida toward the end of this month... Tropical Storm? Hurricane

I do not see this. And also you said around the end of the month, that is a long way off.
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
378. Patrap 6:11 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Large scale WIND warnings in place..and now the Tornado watch boxes are coming in too..Link
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379. Patrap 6:12 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
The Dupage Severe Weather Warnings page..Link
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380. WPBHurricane05 6:14 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
PensacolaNative-The post at 2:10 PM EDT is the OO UTC model run. Here is the latest. Link
Member Since: July 31, 2006 Posts: 56 Comments: 7929
381. PensacolaNative 6:14 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Thanks for the response WPBHurricane05..The 21 of June to be exact....Not sure how to do the link....
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382. Patrap 6:17 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
the 10-day GFSx by UNISYS thru the 17th..Link
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383. PensacolaNative 6:19 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Thanks...I shouldn't look to far ahead...Just a Rookie..
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384. HurricaneFCast 6:21 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
a



Medium Blue area and no convection??????? Hmmm... They need to update this. :O
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
385. HurricaneFCast 6:22 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
They are actually giving a 0.5 percent chance to an area in the southwestern GOM with no convection for tropical development....
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386. HurricaneFCast 6:23 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
a





No convection in southwestern Gulf of Mexico. There is hardly any cloud cover, let alone convective activity.
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
387. HurricaneFCast 6:25 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
a



Current wind shear map.
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388. HurricaneFCast 6:27 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
a


Infrared Image of African Coast. Continual persistence of Tropical Waves, but none have persisted enough to traverse the Atlantic yet. It's only June....
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
389. moonlightcowboy 6:28 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
eyestoplogo1left.jpg

...HurricaneFcast, they must "smell" something down in the sw GOM...could be the big fellow!!! (lol)
Member Since: July 9, 2006 Posts: 179 Comments: 28121
390. Patrap 6:28 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Its blue and purple due to climatology in the Sw GOM. Allison formed there about this time,and in years past ..Thats the favored spot thru the next 14days every year....
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111626
391. HurricaneFCast 6:29 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Lol cowboy.

Patrap that isn't the climatological version, that's the Real-Time version. It isn't due to climatology.. Sorry.. They obviously see something I don't, They will probably change it on the next update.
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392. Patrap 6:29 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Allison..last Tropical Storm storm to have a name retired.Link
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393. HurricaneFCast 6:30 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
a

Patrap- This Is the Climatological version.
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
394. Patrap 6:31 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Its climatology every calender day.EVen the Indians here800 years ago knew that.
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395. hurricane23 6:31 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Interesting to note that the heat potential across the caribbean has expanding a bit.See here
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396. Patrap 6:31 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Neat...mo purple.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111626
397. HurricaneFCast 6:32 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Yes, hurricane23, that is interesting, I haven't been paying attention to that much lately.. hmm. Lol, Save that one and compare it to one come August, that would be amusing to see the difference.
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
398. Patrap 6:33 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Best not to get concerned about blobs and purple and blue....The seasonal lag will catch up in Late August as the Verdes make it across.Then we can all collectivelly work the Mojo. LoL
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111626
399. HurricaneFCast 6:35 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
Patrap- They based the Climatology one on past significant weather events and probability based solely on history. The Real-Time product they actually base off of live data and after a "Thorough" analysis, they come to conclusions which is reflective of that image. Now, I have no clue why they put the almight Blue square up there in the SW GOM, but I do know that will most likely change soon enough. The climatological image shows areas of interest according to historical data and analysis....
Member Since: April 20, 2007 Posts: 7 Comments: 1482
400. Patrap 6:35 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
But Nw and Ne movers out the Caribbean can always throw a wrench into even the globals extended.July looks to be interesting setup.I rarely go into forecast scenarios.More of like 23 posted.SSts and low shear.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111626
401. Patrap 6:36 PM GMT on June 07, 2007    
I know the maps and the reads ... but,thanks for posting them.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 372 Comments: 111626

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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