Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Tropical Storm Ida a major flood threat for Nicaragua and Honduras
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 9:33 PM GMT on November 04, 2009 +2
Tropical Storm Ida has arrived, the ninth named storm of the 2009 Atlantic hurricane season. Visible satellite loops show that Ida continues to steadily organize, with surface spiral banding and upper-level outflow now obvious over the northern portion of the storm. An Air Force hurricane hunter aircraft is in the storm, and found a large area of surface winds in the 45 - 50 mph range, with a smaller area of 60 mph winds, prompting NHC to upgrade the storm.


Figure 1. Afternoon satellite image of Ida.

Ida is currently under low wind shear, 5 - 10 knots, and shear is expected to remain in the low to moderate range in the Western Caribbean for the remainder of the week. Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) are 29°C and the Tropical Cyclone Heat Potential is about 40 kJ/cm^2, which is enough energy for a hurricane to form, if the center remains over water long enough. The Western Caribbean is plenty moist, and dry air is not an issue for Ida. Ida is currently too small to be affected by tropical disturbance (Invest 96E) 500 miles to its west, over the Eastern Pacific.

The forecast for Ida
The 1 - 3 day forecast for Ida has come into better focus now that the storm has formed, and models have come into better agreement. The current west to northwesterly motion of Ida should carry it inland over northeastern Nicaragua early Thursday morning. Ida is too small to tap the Pacific as a source of moisture, and it is just the northeastern portions of Nicaragua and Honduras that need to be concerned with heavy rains and mudslides. With Ida expected to spend a full two days over land, rainfall amounts of 10 - 15 inches over northeastern Nicaragua and Honduras will likely make Ida the deadliest storm of the 2009 Atlantic hurricane season. There is a medium chance (30 - 50%) that Ida will dissipate while over land. If Ida survives the crossing and emerges into the Western Caribbean on Saturday, low to moderate wind shear and warm waters await it, and strengthening is likely. An extratropical storm is forecast by GFS and ECMWF models to form in the Gulf of Mexico's Bay of Campeche on Saturday, and the counter-clockwise flow of air around this storm may propel Ida northwards into the Gulf of Mexico by Monday. However, both of these models show a high pressure ridge building in and forcing Ida southwards, back into the Caribbean, by the middle of next week. The long term fate of Ida, should it survive the crossing of Nicaragua and Honduras, remains murky.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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301. Drakoen 11:51 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting portcharlotte:


I always heard that the GDFL was one of the most reliable hurricane models. I wonder how this might influence the future NHC track


While that is true, the GFDL went from taking this thing well inland to keeping it off-shore and intensifying dangerously. I'm sure this change in the GFDL track is associated with the recent strengthening of Ida.
Member Since: October 28, 2006 Posts: 57 Comments: 29010
302. Seastep 11:51 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
You are not the only one feeling queasy. 18z GFDL brings it right over Cayman. This is the latest one right ?


Yep. Hot off the presses.
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303. Bordonaro 11:51 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting jrweatherman:
18Z GFDL has Ida as a Cat 5 over the Yucatan Channel. I'm not going to put too much faith into that one.

That computer model is way off, in my opinion
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304. Drakoen 11:51 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Very impressive tropical storm:

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306. stormwatcherCI 11:52 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:
The right forward band of convection maybe a sign of where Ida wants to go.
Please explain. Thank you for your patience with me and my many questions.
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307. stormy2008 11:52 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:


she is 3rd to Fred and Billy boy
Quoting Weather456:
The right forward band of convection maybe a sign of where Ida wants to go.


And something tells me that's more North than West. We'll see...
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308. Bordonaro 11:53 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
SUMMARY OF 700 PM EST INFORMATION...
LOCATION...12.2N 82.9W
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...65 MPH
PRESENT MOVEMENT...WEST-NORTHWEST OR 300 DEGREES AT 6 MPH
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...996 MB

THE NEXT ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL
HURRICANE CENTER AT 1000 PM EST.

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309. Chicklit 11:55 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Strange stuff going on in the EPAC.

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310. Cavin Rawlins 11:55 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
Please explain. Thank you for your patience with me and my many questions.


sometimes you can tell where a storm is going by looking the banding features. Usually a westward moving storm like Dean had intense banding feature just west of it. Re-curving storms like Bertha have some convective bands on the NW facing sides.

With Ida the convective band covers between NW and N so it might foretell where Ida is going. It is one of those rule of thumbs that is useful but never always right.
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311. CaicosRetiredSailor 11:55 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
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312. portcharlotte 11:56 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:
The right forward band of convection maybe a sign of where Ida wants to go.


456, I agree, the convective pattern can give the clue of future movement regardless of it's present direction
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313. WxLogic 11:56 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:
Very impressive tropical storm:



Indeed... also note that its motion has slowed some. If it continues to be on the water and strengthen further then a more N component is likely to materialize sooner.
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314. Cavin Rawlins 11:56 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Chicklit:
Strange stuff going on in the EPAC.



hmmm,

that image is 1700 UTC 3 November.
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315. hurricane91 11:57 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
this reminds me a bit of Beta, back in 2005, just strength and location wise
316. unf97 11:57 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
The BOC disturbance is also beginning to flare-up convection as well. Along with Ida, I'm paying close attention to that system as well.
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317. xcool 11:58 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
looking quite nice at this moment
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318. Drakoen 11:58 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting WxLogic:


Indeed... also note that its motion has slowed some. If it continues to be on the water and strengthen further then a more N component is likely to materialize sooner.


Agree.
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319. Cavin Rawlins 11:59 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
6-10 day climo tracks

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320. Drakoen 11:59 PM GMT on November 04, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:


sometimes you can tell where a storm is going by looking the banding features. Usually a westward moving storm like Dean had intense banding feature just west of it. Re-curving storms like Bertha have some convective bands on the NW facing sides.

With Ida the convective band covers between NW and N so it might foretell where Ida is going. It is one of those rule of thumbs that is useful but never always right.


Are you thinking it may just ride along the coastline?
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321. Patrap 12:00 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Current GOM IR loop

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324. StormFreakyisher 12:01 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Eeekk!Ida just gave me the goosebumps!Nice banding features, lets hope Ida moves more north so it won't affect Nicaragua and Honduras...but at the same time we don't want it to strengthen.Wow if the models are correct Florida will certainly see some outer bands being affected by it. Good I need the rain!I need to keep an eye on this one because that loop kinda freaks me out if it would loop right into Florida.
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325. Cavin Rawlins 12:01 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:


Are you thinking it may just ride along the coastline?


That or comes in it at higher angle.
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326. stormpetrol 12:01 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:
The right forward band of convection maybe a sign of where Ida wants to go.

I've heard DR.Lyons make reference to this same thing with several storms/hurricanes also.
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327. xcool 12:02 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    


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328. FLWeatherFreak91 12:02 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting StormFreakyisher:
Eeekk!Ida just gave me the goosebumps!Nice banding features, lets hope Ida moves more north so it won't affect Nicaragua and Honduras...but at the same time we don't want it to strengthen.Wow if the models are correct Florida will certainly see some outer bands being affected by it. Good I need the rain!I need to keep an eye on this one because that loop kinda freaks me out if it would loop right into Florida.
A hurricane to the west of the peninsula is of course not as bad as a landfall, but the outer spiral bands can cause a lot of havoc as well. They are ideal for the formation of tornadoes.
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329. Bordonaro 12:03 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:
Small CDO with banding


I'd like to ask, as you are a preofessional meteorologist, what do you think about the recent cooling of Ida's cloud tops over the last 2 hours? Do you think that intensification is ocurring?
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330. Cavin Rawlins 12:04 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting stormpetrol:
Quoting Weather456:
The right forward band of convection maybe a sign of where Ida wants to go.

I've heard DR.Lyons make reference to this same thing with several storms/hurricanes also.


these convective bands are also sign of continued intensification since the area ahead is favorable for convective development.
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331. Patrap 12:04 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
The motion is still wnw at 300 degrees true,and what we may be seeing is a classic CDO blow up that appears to be more N thru the Pulse,..only time and those NHC updates can determine the motion trend thru 3 hour,increments.

Ida sure is doing here thing tonight though.


Impressive for sure.
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332. Drakoen 12:04 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:


That or comes it at higher angle.


Look at the storm motion on this loop:

Link
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333. KEEPEROFTHEGATE (Mod) 12:04 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
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334. Cavin Rawlins 12:06 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Bordonaro:

I'd like to ask, as you are a preofessional meteorologist, what do you think about the recent cooling of Ida's cloud tops over the last 2 hours? Do you think that intensification is ocurring?


professional is strong term. I'm a forecaster as of 2009.

Systems like these will wax and wane but is the trend of organization which showed be noted. You describe Ida has holding steady with room for continued strengthening.
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335. StormFreakyisher 12:06 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting FLWeatherFreak91:
A hurricane to the west of the peninsula is of course not as bad as a landfall, but the outer spiral bands can cause a lot of havoc as well. They are ideal for the formation of tornadoes.

I always get tornado warnings here in southeast Florida yet I never see a tornado.
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336. Patrap 12:07 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
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337. charlottefl 12:08 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
It's the late season caribbean storms that worry me.. Their target area is much narrower than the average atlantic storm.. Time will tell though.. And as always anything can happen :)
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338. Cavin Rawlins 12:08 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:


Look at the storm motion on this loop:

Link


If you are seeing the same thing, the storm is slowing and moving more north than west.

In reference to high angle meaning, instead of NW, it may just skirt the coast in a NNW heading.
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339. WxLogic 12:09 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Check out the TPW Mimic... more energy will be injected shortly into the Ida.

Link
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340. flwestcoastcane 12:10 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Looks like she'll go just a tad north of her next forecast point.
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341. BioChemist 12:10 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Why would that weak trough pick it up more north? especially if it intensifies a little? Then maybe it will move into an area of higher wind shear and weaken.
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342. charlottefl 12:10 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Just because you get a tornado warning does not necessarily mean there is a tornado on the ground. The NWS issues them when doppler radar detects strong rotation within a thunderstorm. Because of the angle of the radar it is impossible to tell whether that rotation extends all the way to the surface. Especially the further you get away from the radar site.

Quoting StormFreakyisher:

I always get tornado warnings here in southeast Florida yet I never see a tornado.
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343. Drakoen 12:10 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Weather456:


If you are seeing the same thing, the storm is slowing and moving more north than west.

In reference to high angle meaning, instead of NW, it may just skirt the coast in a NNW heading.


Exactly.
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344. clwstmchasr 12:11 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
I can not see how Ida will miss land. It is still heading WNW and would have to turn due N without any additional westward movement. The NHC forecast points are significantly inland.
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345. charlottefl 12:12 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
I think Ida is bordering on becoming a hurricane.. She's starting to develop a CDO
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346. WxLogic 12:12 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Latest Steering currents (21Z):


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347. CybrTeddy 12:12 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Classical CDO going on with Ida. Thinking the next recon might find a Hurricane.
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348. stormwatcherCI 12:12 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting StormFreakyisher:

I always get tornado warnings here in southeast Florida yet I never see a tornado.
Be thankful for that.
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349. Patrap 12:13 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
How TS Ida tracks the next 24 will play a Major role in any solution downstream.

I'd wait to see a trend or a definite deviation from the current heading as those near COC Up Pulses at Night,well..can make one see what you want,sometimes.

But a trend to stay just offshore would show up on the next track update by the NHC.

Till then,..we watch and observe as per usual.

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350. Cavin Rawlins 12:13 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Quoting Drakoen:


Exactly.


and the shape of Central America in that area makes clear cut decisions

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351. Cavin Rawlins 12:14 AM GMT on November 05, 2009    
Ida stronger


...SUMMARY OF 700 PM EST INFORMATION...
LOCATION...12.2N 82.9W
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...65 MPH
PRESENT MOVEMENT...WEST-NORTHWEST OR 300 DEGREES AT 6 MPH
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...996 MB
Member Since: July 24, 2005 Posts: 407 Comments: 19076

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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