Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Western Caribbean disturbance 96L close to tropical depression status
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:21 PM GMT on October 23, 2011 +26
A region of disturbed weather in the Western Caribbean (Invest 96L) has become more organized this morning, and is close to tropical depression status. A hurricane hunter aircraft is scheduled to investigate 96L this afternoon at 2 pm EDT to see if a tropical depression has formed. The system is located just offshore from the Nicaragua/Honduras border, and is bringing heavy rains to northeastern Honduras. Visible satellite loops show that 96L is close to having a well-developed surface circulation, but the heavy thunderstorm activity is all on the west side of the center, due to a large region of dry air to the east. Wind shear is a moderate 10 - 20 knots due to strong upper-level winds out of the east, and these winds are injecting dry air into 96L's east side, keeping any heavy thunderstorms from developing on that side. Water temperatures are very warm, 29 - 30°C, and these warm waters extend to great depth.


Figure 1. Morning satellite image of 96L.

Forecast for 96L
I expect 96L will be able to organize into a tropical depression later today or on Monday, though this process will be slowed by the dry air to the storm's east, and perhaps by proximity to the land areas of Nicaragua and Honduras. NHC gave 96L a 60% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Tuesday in their 8 am Tropical Weather Outlook today. Steering currents favor a motion to the west-northwest or northwest, and it is likely that heavy rains from 96L will spread over Belize by Tuesday night, when the storm will probably be called Tropical Storm Rina. Heavy rains from the storm will spread over Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula, including Cozumel and Cancun, by Wednesday afternoon. On Wednesday, 96L will be encountering a dry airmass with high wind shear that lies over the extreme northwestern Caribbean. Since 96L is a small storm, these hostile conditions should cause the storm to weaken significantly before any potential landfall occurs.

97L
A broad region of low pressure near 11°N, 55°W, about 300 hundred miles east of the southern Lesser Antilles Islands (Invest 97L), is moving slowly west-northwest towards the Lesser Antilles. This low has very limited heavy thunderstorm activity, due to dry air. NHC is giving 97L just a 10% chance of developing into a tropical depression by Tuesday. 97L is under a moderate 10 - 20 knots of wind shear, and this shear is expected to drop to the low range, less than 10 knots, by Monday, when the storm will be in the Eastern Caribbean Sea. By the time 97L approaches Jamaica in the Central Caribbean on Friday, the storm should find a moister environment, and could develop into a tropical depression then, as predicted by the NOGAPS model.

Jeff Masters
Categories: Hurricane
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1051. scott39 12:43 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Tropical Atlantics 12z has Rina at 40knts 1001mb moving NW at 7mph.
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1052. stormpetrol 12:43 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I still think that Grand Cayman should be under TS warnings, as I think we will experience TS conditions here within the next 24 hours, JMO
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1053. stormpetrol 12:45 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I think the center of Rina is around 17.5N/82.9W
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1054. wunderkidcayman 12:46 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:
I think the COC has relocated under the deepest convection!Link

I say if any relocation it could be ESE of the deepest convection but anyway I am sticking with what I said untill I search and find provin otherwise
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1055. Cotillion 12:46 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting scott39:
Does it look to be organizing faster than forecasted?


Maybe a bit, but it's still got a while to go.

Looks decent for a lower end TS, though.
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1056. hydrus 12:46 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
97L is looking a bit more interesting..
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1057. AussieStorm 12:48 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:
Also keep in mind shear is gonna pick up today as the first shortwave passes the storm by, and then it will begin to relax in advance of the next shortwave, before it begins to increase again.


EDIT: I guess I should clarify, I mean shear to the North of the system.

Any Kelvin waves coming?
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1058. wunderkidcayman 12:48 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:
I think the center of Rina is around 17.5N/82.9W
I say 17.3N 82.2W/82.3W
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1059. charlottefl 12:48 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
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1060. charlottefl 12:48 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting AussieStorm:

Any Kelvin waves coming?


Not that I know of...
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1061. AussieStorm 12:49 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:
I still think that Grand Cayman should be under TS warnings, as I think we will experience TS conditions here within the next 24 hours, JMO

Why don't you email the NHC and ask them why they haven't, would be interesting to see there response.
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1062. scott39 12:49 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
If you go by Tropical Atlantic... pressure is dropping with Rina and wind speed is increasing,
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1063. AussieStorm 12:50 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:


Not that I know of...

Is there anyway of finding out?
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1064. superpete 12:50 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Stormpetrol, have you walked over and seen what the state of the sea is off Sand Cay/ S.Sound this morning? MIght need an umbrella.lol
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1065. charlottefl 12:50 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting AussieStorm:

Why don't you email the NHC and ask them why they haven't, would be interesting to see there response.


It's up to the respective countries to issue their own warnings, the NHC just coordinates information with them.
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1066. superpete 12:52 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
We may come under a T.S. Watch by 9am, when the hazard management gets moving for the day
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1067. charlottefl 12:52 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting AussieStorm:

Is there anyway of finding out?


Yeah, not sure how to read this though:



Here's the site:

Link
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1068. wunderkidcayman 12:54 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting AussieStorm:

Why don't you email the NHC and ask them why they haven't, would be interesting to see there response.

hey Aussie it not the NHC that makes the watches and warnings the Gov. of any country that makes them

I say if my plots are true or its very very very near to that and if the track continues N-NNW the I don't doubt that the TS Watches and Warning will be bestode apon this island today
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1069. stormpetrol 12:54 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:


It's up to the respective countries to issue their own warnings, the NHC just coordinates information with them.


Correct it's up to our Government to issue the warning in collaboration with the NHC, but ultimately it is our Governments decision!
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1070. superpete 12:55 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
NHC doesn't issue watches and warnings for non-U.S. areas. Once the local government of that area does issue its own watches, NHC lists them in the TWO and discussion
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1071. AussieStorm 12:56 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:


It's up to the respective countries to issue their own warnings, the NHC just coordinates information with them.

Well email the local Authorities and ask why not.
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1072. AussieStorm 12:57 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:


Yeah, not sure how to read this though:



Here's the site:

Link

Thanks :-)
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1073. stormwatcherCI 12:59 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Power has been off at my end of the island for about 20 minutes now.
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1074. PdCMexico 12:59 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I know it is a long way out but the NHC's track has a 1 directly over my house come Saturday. In any event, looks like we are going to get a lot of rain.
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1075. scott39 1:00 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:
I still think that Grand Cayman should be under TS warnings, as I think we will experience TS conditions here within the next 24 hours, JMO
It could be because Rina is moving away from Grand Cayman, and wouldnt a TS watch come first?
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1076. wunderkidcayman 1:01 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I asked a buddy of mine he said the same as mine if my plots hold true and track as well we could is watches and warning anyway after my classes finish at 11:30 I am going to head over to my work (CI Met office) to meet up with him and check up with this
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1077. kmanhurricaneman 1:02 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
mmmmmm somebody say "paloma"
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1078. scott39 1:03 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting kmanhurricaneman:
mmmmmm somebody say "paloma"
As long as we dont talk up -----!!
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1079. AussieStorm 1:03 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting charlottefl:


Yeah, not sure how to read this though:



Here's the site:

Link


This is interesting...... I think, lol.



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1080. wunderkidcayman 1:03 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Paloma . . .
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1081. charlottefl 1:03 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting kmanhurricaneman:
mmmmmm somebody say "paloma"


I definitely think a more Eastward track is possible. We'll just have to see what kind of influence these 2 shortwaves have...
Member Since: December 18, 2006 Posts: 7 Comments: 2672
1082. kmanhurricaneman 1:06 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
remember track paloma if i recall models took it away from cayman ,thats why they took so long to issue warnings remember.
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1083. Cotillion 1:07 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
It's not even a Paloma type track, let alone it being a little too early for comparisons to a Cat 4.
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1084. Saltydogbwi1 1:09 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
Power has been off at my end of the island for about 20 minutes now.


my UPS beeped about that same time and the lights dimmed prolly a strike still have power here in spotts though
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1085. ProgressivePulse 1:09 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting hydrus:
97L is looking a bit more interesting..



Ships has 97L up to 101kts @ 120 hrs. Seems this may be one to watch for sure.

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1086. scott39 1:10 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
It looks like the farther N Rina gets away from land interaction, the more she is organizing.
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1087. ProgressivePulse 1:14 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Judging by the clustered BAMM tracks for 97L, and the path, looks like it will just follow the western edge of the ridge into a weakness.
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1088. AussieStorm 1:15 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
11/6-11/13: If the RMM phase space transitions into RMM phases 3-4 low-frequency atmospheric conditions are projected to become more favorable over the

Atlantic during this period and there is potential for major hurricane development. Due to the time of year, this would be a favorable period for genesis to

occur over the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico. Keep an eye on this period for potentially strong hurricanes. Tropical cyclone activity is expected to be Low

with confidence of 15%. This forecast relies heavily on the evolution MJO and will be adjusted accordingly with time.
Member Since: September 30, 2007 Posts: 5 Comments: 13359
1090. Sfloridacat5 1:17 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Based on the models, it looks like Rina will be stuck down in the Caribbean.
Local meteorologist said up here in Fl. we don't have anything to worry about from Rina.

Currently it does look that way, but I'd be afraid to make that statement.
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1091. kmanhurricaneman 1:17 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Paloma 2008
November 5 18 UTC 13.7N 81.7W -- deg -- mph -- kph 30 mph 45 kph 1004 mb Tropical Depression
November 6 0 UTC 14.2N 82.0W 330 deg 5 mph 9 kph 35 mph 55 kph 1004 mb Tropical Depression
November 6 6 UTC 14.8N 82.1W 350 deg 6 mph 11 kph 40 mph 65 kph 1003 mb Tropical Storm
November 6 12 UTC 15.4N 82.0W 10 deg 6 mph 11 kph 45 mph 75 kph 1000 mb Tropical Storm
November 6 18 UTC 16.1N 81.9W 10 deg 8 mph 12 kph 65 mph 100 kph 994 mb Tropical Storm
November 7 0 UTC 16.8N 81.8W 10 deg 8 mph 12 kph 75 mph 120 kph 987 mb Hurricane - Category 1
November 7 6 UTC 17.4N 81.7W 10 deg 6 mph 11 kph 75 mph 120 kph 985 mb Hurricane - Category 1
November 7 12 UTC 18.0N 81.6W 10 deg 6 mph 11 kph 85 mph 140 kph 979 mb Hurricane - Category 1
November 7 18 UTC
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1092. MahFL 1:21 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Looks to me that Rina is rotating a lot faster than 40 mph....
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1093. WoodyFL 1:22 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I agree with most of you that Rina does look better organized in just the past few hourse. It appears that there is much more outflow in the Northwest part of they system than before.

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1094. kmanhurricaneman 1:22 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
what? no comment?
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1095. Sfloridacat5 1:22 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting ProgressivePulse:



Ships has 97L up to 101kts @ 120 hrs. Seems this may be one to watch for sure.



Different time of year, but the model tracks match up pretty well with Hurricane Charley.

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1096. kmanhurricaneman 1:24 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
anyway i out see u all later
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1097. GeoffreyWPB 1:26 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
97L...

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1098. gopher1 1:26 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
everyone on cozumel need to be prepared for at least a cat 1 hurricane...rina is going to give them a real problem as it stews over them for 48 hours..i really dont think SOUTH FLA has anything to be concerned about with the strong shear thats forecast for later in the week.i think rina dies on the yucatan after a few days....IMO of course..
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1099. CitikatzSouthFL 1:27 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Quoting Sfloridacat5:
Based on the models, it looks like Rina will be stuck down in the Caribbean.
Local meteorologist said up here in Fl. we don't have anything to worry about from Rina.

Currently it does look that way, but I'd be afraid to make that statement.

MY S Florida mets are all stating that we have to watch these one "carefully". Unfortunately, in my experience some mets do not want to "scare" the tourists.

Good morning all. Lovely day in Port St. Lucie. Off to a job interview. Cross your fingers and please send positive thoughts my way.

Later.
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1100. wunderkidcayman 1:28 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
I really really think that the COC is trully near 17.3N 82.2W thats what I have to say about that at this time
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1101. Neapolitan 1:29 PM GMT on October 24, 2011    
Rina strengthening nicely:

AL, 18, 2011102412, , BEST, 0, 170N, 826W, 40, 1001, TS, 34, NEQ, 60, 40, 40, 75, 1012, 200, 35, 0, 0, L, 0, , 0, 0, RINA, M,

...while 97L maintains its status quo:

AL, 97, 2011102412, , BEST, 0, 121N, 624W, 25, 1007, LO, 34, NEQ, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1010, 270, 150, 0, 0, L, 0, , 0, 0, INVEST, S,
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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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