Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Heartland Institute documents reveal strategy of attacks against climate science
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 3:15 PM GMT on February 17, 2012 +67
Documents illegally leaked from the Heartland Institute, one of the most active groups engaged in attacking the science of climate change, provide an unprecedented look into how these groups operate. The story was broken Tuesday by DeSmogBlog, a website dedicated to exposing false claims about climate change science. The documents reveal that donors to Heartland included oil billionaire Charles Koch, and Heartland has spent several million dollars over the past five years to undermine climate science. Tens of thousands of dollars are slated to go this year to well-known climate contrarians S.Fred Singer, Craig Idso, and Anthony Watts of the Watts Up With That? website. Naturally, the leaked documents have lit up the blogosphere, but none of the revelations are particularly surprising. The U.S. has a very successful and well-funded climate change denial industry, primarily funded by fossil fuel companies, that has spent hundreds of millions of dollars over the past few decades on a PR campaign against climate change science. I made a lengthy post on the subject in 2009 called, The Manufactured Doubt industry and the hacked email controversy. I won't say more here, but getenergysmartnow.com has compiled a long list of blogs that have interesting posts on the Heartland Institute affair for those interested in following this story.



Eight books challenging the Manufactured Doubt industry
Important scientific findings should always be challenged with the goal of finding flaws and improving our scientific understanding. But there's nothing a scientist hates more than to see good science attacked and the reputations of good scientists smeared in name of protecting corporate profits or ideology. A number of scientists have fought back against the recent unfounded assaults on climate change science by publishing books calling attention to the Manufactured Doubt industry's tactics and goals. Anyone priding themselves on being a open-minded skeptic of human-caused global warming should challenge their skepticism by reading one of these works. I thought so highly of Unscientific America, Merchants of Doubt, and Climate Coverup, that I donated 50 copies of these books to undergraduates at the University of Michigan last year. Here's a short synopsis of eight books published in the past three years defending climate change science against the attacks of the Manufactured Doubt industry:

Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway. If you're going to read one book on the attacks on climate science, this should probably be the one--Dr. Oreskes, a history professor at UC San Diego, was voted climate change communicator of the year in 2011. A review of Merchants of Doubt and a video of her defending her book against skeptics is at climateprogress.org, my favorite website for staying current on the politics of climate change. From the review: "Make the journey with them, and you’ll see renowned scientists abandon science, you’ll see environmentalism equated with communism, and you’ll discover the connection between the Cold War and climate denial. And for the most part, you’ll be entertained along the way."

Climate Cover-up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming, by desmogblog.com co-founders James Hoggan and Richard Littlemore. The main author, James Hoggan, owns a Canadian public relations firm, and is intimately familiar with how public relations campaigns work. It's another fascinating and very readable book.

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future, by science writer Chris Mooney. He writes a blog focusing on science communication called the intersection. This is a fantastic book, and should be required reading for all college science majors.

Climate Change Denial: Heads in the Sand, by Haydn Washington and John Cook. John Cook writes for one of my favorite climate science blogs, skepticalscience.com, which focuses on debunking false skeptic claims about climate science. The book does a great job debunking all the classic climate change denial arguments.

Doubt is Their Product: How Industry's Assault on Science Threatens Your Health, by George Washington University epidemiologist David Michaels, who now heads the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA). This meticulously-researched book has just one chapter on climate change, and focuses more on tobacco and hazardous chemicals. About the the tobacco industry's Manufactured Doubt campaigns, Michaels wrote: "the industry understood that the public is in no position to distinguish good science from bad. Create doubt, uncertainty, and confusion. Throw mud at the anti-smoking research under the assumption that some of it is bound to stick. And buy time, lots of it, in the bargain". The title of Michaels' book comes from a 1969 memo from a tobacco company executive: "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the 'body of fact' that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy".

The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines, by climate scientist Dr. Michael Mann. Dr. Mann is the originator of the much-debated "hockey stick" graph of global temperatures over the past 1,000 years, which looks like a hockey stick due to the sharp increase in temperatures in recent decades. This book just came out last week, and I hope to write a review on it this spring. Dr. Mann is one of the main contributors to my favorite web site for staying current on climate change research, realclimate.org. John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "an eye-opening account of the lengths the opponents of climate science will go to in their campaign to slander climate scientists and distract the public from the realities of human caused global warming."

Fool Me Twice: Fighting the Assault on Science in America by Shawn Lawrence Otto. I haven't had a chance to read this one yet, but it looks interesting. A review by Katherine O’Konski of Climate Science Watch called the book "a fascinating look at the status of science in American society."

The Inquisition of Climate Science, by Dr. James Lawrence Powell, a geochemist with a distinguished career as a college teacher, college president, museum director, and author of books on earth science for general audiences. I haven't read it, but John Cook of skepticalscience.com wrote a review, calling it "a must-read for anyone who wishes to understand the full scope of the denial industry and their modern day persecution of climate science."

Have a great weekend, everyone! I'll be taking a few vacation days next week, and wunderground meteorologist Angela Fritz will probably be doing most of the blogging for me during the coming week.

Jeff Masters
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1401. HurrikanEB 3:24 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
GFS continues to show a strong low-pressure area affecting the East Coast in 9-10 days from now. Just like this past one, heavy rainfall across the southeast and into southeastern Virginia, but all snow across the mountains of North Carolina and most of Virginia. It appears that this low pulls much more moisture into the colder air than this past system, so snow stretches across much of the Northeast.

Something to watch for sure.



This is ridiculous. Virginia and the mid atlantic don't need anymore snow. There is virtually no snow in the northeast; we need the snow.

Edit: I wonder if the northeast will experience dry conditions this spring/summer since it looks like a lot of places won't get any soil saturation from what would normally be two feet of snow melting in March. Also, most of the east coast is 2 to 4 inches below normal for precipitation over the past 2 months. I'd imagine the lack of nor'easters is at least partially to blame.

Member Since: May 2, 2008 Posts: 12 Comments: 1267
1402. washingtonian115 3:25 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:
GFS continues to show a strong low-pressure area affecting the East Coast in 9-10 days from now. Just like this past one, heavy rainfall across the southeast and into southeastern Virginia, but all snow across the mountains of North Carolina and most of Virginia. It appears that this low pulls much more moisture into the colder air than this past system, so snow stretches across much of the Northeast.

Something to watch for sure.

And why don't I believe that?
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10611
1403. SPLbeater 3:26 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting washingtonian115:
And why don't I believe that?


you have been sick from no snow all winter and now you have no hope whatsover for snow? lol idk
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1404. washingtonian115 3:30 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set again today. I imagine that's quite a relief...
. Really?.It is so early in the morning for this...
Member Since: August 14, 2010 Posts: 5 Comments: 10611
1405. melwerle 3:31 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
I might have been really tired or just hallucinating or something but has anyone else seen a mitsubishi commercial that mentioned weatherunderground? Saw it last night but was like HUH?
Member Since: June 28, 2006 Posts: 12 Comments: 1837
1406. Xyrus2000 3:32 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting FrankZapper:
As a stockholder in a major oil company that is doing quite well at present, I say that weather blogs should not be used for propaganda from the AGW leftist groups.


Member Since: October 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1016
1407. HurricaneDean07 3:32 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Hi everyone, decided to stop hibernating from the blog today. After all, it's gonna be in the 70's and 80's all week around here with bright and sunny skies of coarse. That pattern the models have been picking up on is sure about to kick in, it's gonna be drier and sunny here and the west, and as for the east, well more winter for you guys... Up the east coast especially. Anyhow, that's my two cents to weather... Be back when things actually become INTERESTING in the tropics, around beginning of May... When we start watching for our first tropical.
Member Since: October 3, 2010 Posts: 39 Comments: 4035
1408. TropicalAnalystwx13 3:35 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting Neapolitan:
Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

I see that the UK is bouncing back nicely from the cold snap; there are a number of high temperature records being challenged, tied, or set again today. I imagine that's quite a relief...
Quoting TampaCat5:

Cat5? Huh?
Quoting NaplesFLBreeze:

See #1363. Apparently, someone has a minor problem with confusing bloggers and calling out innocent bystanders like a child. I don't think it's personal.
Quoting SPLbeater:


if anybody had alot of alt accounts, or 'sockpuppets' it would probably be Neapolitan. just ignore Nea if he messes with you, he does that to everyone:)

Besides, people dont join in 2006 to troll in 2012.

Cat5hurricane and TampaCat5 are two different people.

TampaCat5=long time member
Cat5hurricane=banned member that dislikes Nea and is apparently making fake accounts to mess with him.
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25186
1409. SPLbeater 3:36 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Im bored.

Blog activity sure went down since dis storm system.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1410. HurricaneDean07 3:36 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting HurricaneDean07:
Hi everyone, decided to stop hibernating from the blog today. After all, it's gonna be in the 70's and 80's all week around here with bright and sunny skies of coarse. That pattern the models have been picking up on is sure about to kick in, it's gonna be drier and sunny here and the west, and as for the east, well more winter for you guys... Up the east coast especially. Anyhow, that's my two cents to weather... Be back when things actually become INTERESTING in the tropics, around beginning of May... When we start watching for our first tropical.

Wave... Lol didnt finish my last sentence
Member Since: October 3, 2010 Posts: 39 Comments: 4035
1411. SPLbeater 3:37 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
I am going to go find some model forecast that is interesting to post.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1412. RTSplayer 3:38 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are SOOOOOOO wrong.

My church is NOT a busniness.


and you said you doubted I knew the meaning of the passages.

Easily said.

Every church or denomination insists theirs is free from the corruption. It is those "other" guys who've got it wrong.

"We're not a cult! Those other guys are!"

"We're not abusing our congregation! Those other guys are."

One boasts that they are not "Lukewarm" like the other guys.

Another boasts that they have "moderation", unlike the "fanatics".

the Fanatics consider the liberals apostates.


The Catholics are two-faced. On the one hand, they'll claim they consider all the others Christian, but on the other hand, they claim the Catholic church is the only true church, and then whether they admit it or not, the RCC is filled with Mary-olatry and other Saint worship. But I do give them credit about one thing, in most cases they actually do have a more intellectual approach to faith than most protestant denominations.


I used to write commentary and tracts on my spare time, and debate theology and eschatology with the seminary theologians on various Christian forums.

the fact is, most people identifying themselves as "Christian" know absolutely nothing about the Bible or Christianity. Surveys have been done by both atheist and Christian organizations, and most people identifying themselves as Christian cannot name two books in the Bible, and cannot name more than 2 or 3 of the Ten Commandments, and cannot even give the basic tenets of the faith regarding Christ or the requirements for salvation.

You should start with your church, or some nearby churches in your neighborhood.

go to church and ask people basic, "idiot level" questions about the Christian faith.

Who is Jesus.
What is salvation and how is it obtained.
What is sanctification or righteousness and how is that obtained?

And so on.

Ask some other things, ridiculously simple, like who built the Ark with the animals and the great flood, or what does the symbolism of the temple and the levitical offerings mean, from a Christian perspective and interpretation?

They will have no clue. In fact, I'm willing to bet a dollar that last one will stump 99% of PASTORS.

I can show you things that no pastor I've ever heard of knows about the Levitical offerings and how they tie into the New Testament.

I've got much of my Bible marked up and worn out from cross-references in underlining, highlighting, and the margins, because I did the homework.


Anyway, even when you find a theologian or somebody who actually does know "somewhat" of what they are talking about, you can't get any two people to agree on much of anything.

Been there, done that, tried it found out it doesn't work.

then the Atheist joins a discussion, and with the exception of the most highly educated Christians, they typically make the Christians look like complete fools, right on the middle of the Christian web site, because they almost always know more about science, and usually know more about the Bible than the Christians as well, and the sad thing is the Christians are usually too stupid to even realize it...
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 27 Comments: 875
1413. SPLbeater 3:39 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
GFS hour 192 looks interesting...
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1417. Jedkins01 3:47 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:



you have got to be a CPU.

until you take a step inside my church, dont even begin to critisize it. I have a very godly church that is bible based and has no BS involved. Our preacher is one of the best.

SO SHUT YOUR TRAP.


Hey, don't get upset man, you're not going to convince him, I get why you would be upset, he thinks he knows all and is quick to judge what he knows not. However, those who are brain legends in their own minds, you cannot hold reasonable conversations with them, so don't bother, just be free.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1418. TropicalAnalystwx13 3:48 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:



you have got to be a CPU.

until you take a step inside my church, dont even begin to critisize it. I have a very godly church that is bible based and has no BS involved. Our preacher is one of the best.

SO SHUT YOUR TRAP.

I know your parents taught you manners...

Quoting SPLbeater:
GFS hour 192 looks interesting...

More heavy rain...We got 5" here yesterday.

Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25186
1419. Jedkins01 3:50 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are SOOOOOOO wrong.

My church is NOT a busniness.


and you said you doubted I knew the meaning of the passages.

Easily said.

Every church or denomination insists theirs is free from the corruption. It is those "other" guys who've got it wrong.

"We're not a cult! Those other guys are!"

"We're not abusing our congregation! Those other guys are."

One boasts that they are not "Lukewarm" like the other guys.

Another boasts that they have "moderation", unlike the "fanatics".

the Fanatics consider the liberals apostates.


The Catholics are two-faced. On the one hand, they'll claim they consider all the others Christian, but on the other hand, they claim the Catholic church is the only true church, and then whether they admit it or not, the RCC is filled with Mary-olatry and other Saint worship. But I do give them credit about one thing, in most cases they actually do have a more intellectual approach to faith than most protestant denominations.


I used to write commentary and tracts on my spare time, and debate theology and eschatology with the seminary theologians on various Christian forums.

the fact is, most people identifying themselves as "Christian" know absolutely nothing about the Bible or Christianity. Surveys have been done by both atheist and Christian organizations, and most people identifying themselves as Christian cannot name two books in the Bible, and cannot name more than 2 or 3 of the Ten Commandments, and cannot even give the basic tenets of the faith regarding Christ or the requirements for salvation.

You should start with your church, or some nearby churches in your neighborhood.

go to church and ask people basic, "idiot level" questions about the Christian faith.

Who is Jesus.
What is salvation and how is it obtained.
What is sanctification or righteousness and how is that obtained?

And so on.

Ask some other things, ridiculously simple, like who built the Ark with the animals and the great flood, or what does the symbolism of the temple and the levitical offerings mean, from a Christian perspective and interpretation?

They will have no clue. In fact, I'm willing to bet a dollar that last one will stump 99% of PASTORS.

I can show you things that no pastor I've ever heard of knows about the Levitical offerings and how they tie into the New Testament.

I've got much of my Bible marked up and worn out from cross-references in underlining, highlighting, and the margins, because I did the homework.


Anyway, even when you find a theologian or somebody who actually does know "somewhat" of what they are talking about, you can't get any two people to agree on much of anything.

Been there, done that, tried it found out it doesn't work.

then the Atheist joins a discussion, and with the exception of the most highly educated Christians, they typically make the Christians look like complete fools, right on the middle of the Christian web site, because they almost always know more about science, and usually know more about the Bible than the Christians as well, and the sad thing is the Christians are usually too stupid to even realize it...



Bro, God didn't come to reward dudes with big brains and big egos, those who are last shall be first and the first shall be last. You're missing the whole point, let go and embrace love and freedom.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1420. fmhurricane2009 3:51 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Jedkins, how impressive is the cold front going to be that passes through Tampa. I'm planning for 70-50(D F) in TPA.
is this a reasonable approximation, or am I off by a few degrees?
Member Since: August 15, 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 190
1421. WxGeekVA 3:52 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Seriously. Stop with the religious debate or take it to another blog. There is plenty of weather to discuss and not enough room to have a religious arguement at the same time
Member Since: September 3, 2011 Posts: 13 Comments: 3311
1422. Jedkins01 3:53 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting fmhurricane2009:
Jedkins, how impressive is the cold front going to be that passes through Tampa. I'm planning for 70-50(D F) in TPA.
is this a reasonable approximation, or am I off by a few degrees?



Do you mean the recent front that just passed through? Or the front this upcoming Friday? And which day are you referring to?
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1423. hydrus 3:54 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
This could be interesting..
Member Since: September 27, 2007 Posts: 1 Comments: 14246
1424. SPLbeater 3:55 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting Jedkins01:


Hey, don't get upset man, you're not going to convince him, I get why you would be upset, he thinks he knows all and is quick to judge what he knows not. However, those who are brain legends in their own minds, you cannot hold reasonable conversations with them, so don't bother, just be free.


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.
Quoting WxGeekVA:
Seriously. Stop with the religious debate or take it to another blog. There is plenty of weather to discuss and it enough room to have a religious arguement at the same time


some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1425. Patrap 3:57 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Uploaded by CompartiendoPubli on Feb 9, 2012
For five days, six states and a few thousand miles in December, we chased a storm with the expert help of Weather Underground. The film was shot documentary-style with Directors Emmett and Brendan Malloy, two brothers who say chasing unpredictable parts of nature is a big part of their filmmaking process. A member of Mitsubishi's social media team went along for the ride, tweeting and posting their whereabouts.

Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
1427. Xyrus2000 3:58 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting bappit:

If we could get past the denial, maybe we could figure out what we should do. I'm sure you don't want a few individuals dictating the approach to take. I know I don't. I do think the real problem is more onerous than some want to admit, but why not be honest/realistic about things? It is not as easy as giving up cigarettes--and you may be aware of how difficult that is.


To be clear, the scientist do research and make recommendations. They do not make policy. That is up to the politicians. And for politicians to act there has to be either:

1. Money
2. An outcry from the public so loud that if they want to get re-elected they will have to ignore the money (rare).

Then we actually need the will, the resources, and the money to actually perform whatever course of action is selected. And that's assuming that there aren't groups fighting tooth and nail against it, which there usually is, or other trumped up issues which take precedence in the mind of the public, which there usually are.

So while addressing the issue is very important, I have a great deal of cynicism that anything will actually be done about it until its too late.
Member Since: October 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1016
1428. uncwhurricane85 3:59 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.

some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*


his church is the best and its snowed 57 inches at his house last night!! NOT!
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 559
1429. RitaEvac 3:59 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting melwerle:
I might have been really tired or just hallucinating or something but has anyone else seen a mitsubishi commercial that mentioned weatherunderground? Saw it last night but was like HUH?


I saw it last night, Pat has been posting it from youtube past week or so...
Member Since: July 14, 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 8874
1430. Jedkins01 4:01 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


ya idk why argue with an HP computer.

some1 needs to git rid of that HP computer thats here..

oh wait, i know an idea. *runs over to ignore list*


I guess I'm not the only one who thinks a few posters here are advanced CP programs designed to create blog trouble...

Maybe its WATSON :0

lol jk



Anyways, there are actually some amazing Computers that are capable of simulating human conversation quite well, to where you might think its is a human. Technology has come so far even since I was young, and I'm just 21 years old.

We are truly in the Star Trek age, at this point the only thing stopping us from traveling throughout deep space in the next 20 years is the massive amount of money it would take to do so, lol.
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1431. Patrap 4:01 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
The Video just now is the Extended Version.
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
1432. Minnemike 4:03 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting EllenPettit:
Oh, so sorry, TampaCat5, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)

Nea - you have wumail.
changing the quoted text to further obfuscate? here, let me correct that for you, though TampaCat5 surely knows by now Nea wasn't talking to him.... "Oh, so sorry, Cat5Hurricane, but I have you (and all your sockpuppets) blocked from WUmailing me. A dozen separate and obscene WUmails from a dozen separate handles in the past two days? Seriously? ;-)" -quoting Nea
and now i ignore you, as i hope the rest of the blog does... (sorry for quoting the troll, no more food from me)
Member Since: July 31, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1253
1433. SPLbeater 4:04 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


his church is the best and its snowed 57 inches at his house last night!! NOT!


you are certainly not at my house, and if you were i would run you off. you can not argue totals with me because your NOT here to measure yourself!

Maybe your a computer too...you trust it more then you do observations...
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1435. uncwhurricane85 4:07 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


you are certainly not at my house, and if you were i would run you off. you can not argue totals with me because your NOT here to measure yourself!

Maybe your a computer too...you trust it more then you do observations...


its ok to overhipe your observations, everybody does it..i did the same thing when i had my first beer
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 559
1436. RTSplayer 4:10 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:



you have got to be a CPU.

until you take a step inside my church, dont even begin to critisize it. I have a very godly church that is bible based and has no BS involved. Our preacher is one of the best.

SO SHUT YOUR TRAP.


You fail to comprehend the problem.

I've heard that a HUNDRED TIMES, and guess what? Burnt.

EVERYONE SAYS THAT, you poor blind sheep.

I've been everywhere from the mega-church to the hole in the wall church on the corner, to the hole in the wall church in the remote campground 10 miles deep in the woods, and it's the same thing.

"My church is GOOOOOD, Bible based. TRUST ME! We're the real deal. Yup. That's us. Praise Jesus!!" - that's what every church says outwardly.




That's what I just got done explaining to you.

You may be honest and even correct, but I have no way to trust you anyway, moreover, you haven't given me, or anyone else, anything that would prove that to anyone.


I can't even get to the more important, intellectually honest, "Search your real heart and soul" questions about the problems in the integrity of the Bible itself, because you can't even seem to see the obvious stuff that's wrong with the "church", and I mean all denominations and non-denominations.
Member Since: January 25, 2012 Posts: 27 Comments: 875
1437. Jedkins01 4:10 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


its ok to overhipe your observations, everybody does it..i did the same thing when i had my first beer



It only took you 1 beer for that to happen? Dang man you better stay away from alcohol...
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1438. HadesGodWyvern 4:11 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Japan Meteorological Agency
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #27
TROPICAL DEPRESSION 01
21:00 PM JST February 20 2012
==================================

SUBJECT: TROPICAL DEPRESSION IN SOUTH CHINA SEA

At 12:00 PM UTC, Tropical Depression (1006 hPa) located at 9.0N 111.0E has 10 minute sustained winds of 25 knots with gusts of 40 knots. The depression is reported as almost stationary.

Final tropical cyclone advisory on this system unless system re-intensifies
Member Since: May 24, 2006 Posts: 43 Comments: 36684
1439. HadesGodWyvern 4:11 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Mauritius Meteorological Services
Tropical Cyclone Advisory #15
TEMPETE TROPICALE MODEREE HILWA (10-20112012)
16:00 PM RET February 20 2012
=====================================

At 12:00 PM UTC, Moderate Tropical Storm Hilwa (995 hPa) located at 18.9S 65.4E has 10 minute sustained winds of 35 knots with gusts of 50 knots. The cyclone is reported as moving west at 6 knots.

Gale Force Winds
============
20 NM radius from the center

Near Gale Force Winds
================
40-60 NM radius from the center extending up to 90 NM in the southeastern semi-circle

Dvorak Intensity: T2.5/2.5/D1.0/24 HRS

Forecast and Intensity
========================

12 HRS: 19.1S 64.4E - 40 knots (Tempête Tropicale Modérée)
24 HRS: 19.9S 63.4E - 45 knots (Tempête Tropicale Modérée)
48 HRS: 23.0S 62.5E - 35 knots (Tempête Tropicale Modérée)
72 HRS: 27.5S 64.0E - 30 knots (Depression Tropicale)

Additional Information
=======================

0441 AM UTC ASCAT swath shows an improving low level circulation within the last 12 hours in the western semi-cercle. TRMM data of 0659 AM UTC suggest that convection is organizing into curved band around the center.

System is expected to keep on tracking west southwestward then southwestward around the highs of low troposphere and finally southward Wednesday evacuating with the trough.

The weakening of the vertical wind shear on the system , and the temporally polar outflow channel building with the approaching upper level trough give a gap of intensification of 24 to 36 hours. However in relationship with a lack of low level inflow (mainly equatorward), intensification of the system may remain laborious.

The next tropical cyclone advisory from Mauritius Meteorological Service on TC HILWA will be issued at 18:30 PM UTC..
Member Since: May 24, 2006 Posts: 43 Comments: 36684
1440. SPLbeater 4:14 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


its ok to overhipe your observations, everybody does it..i did the same thing when i had my first beer


i ddint overhype it. I STUCK A RULER IN IT AND GOT A TOTAL. if your to prideful or ignorant to admit your wrong, then-

goodbye. you have now become #14ignored.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1441. TropicalAnalystwx13 4:14 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting NaplesFLBreeze:

CatHurricane250 is still an active member here. Same with TampaCat5.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to modify my post...
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25186
1442. uncwhurricane85 4:14 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting Jedkins01:



It only took you 1 beer for that to happen? Dang man you better stay away from alcohol...


nah i was saying that for SPLbeater...i was using an analogy of how when you have your first beer you say you had 10 like he said they had snow in sanford, n.c. last night, which they did have enought for it to be transparent on a wooden deck
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 559
1443. Xyrus2000 4:14 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting GeorgiaStormz:


Who will replace the oil the EU is not getting now?


The EU doesn't receive a significant fraction of it's petroleum from Iran (about 4%). Chances are they'll just buy it from someone else.
Member Since: October 31, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 1016
1444. TropicalAnalystwx13 4:15 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


i ddint overhype it. I STUCK A RULER IN IT AND GOT A TOTAL. if your to prideful or ignorant to admit your wrong, then-

goodbye. you have now become #14ignored.

That's not a good idea. The ignore list isn't a good tool to use because other people are going to quote the person anyways...
Member Since: July 6, 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25186
1445. uncwhurricane85 4:16 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting SPLbeater:


i ddint overhype it. I STUCK A RULER IN IT AND GOT A TOTAL. if your to prideful or ignorant to admit your wrong, then-

goodbye. you have now become #14ignored.


DARN!
Member Since: August 4, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 559
1447. SPLbeater 4:17 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting TropicalAnalystwx13:

That's not a good idea. The ignore list isn't a good tool to use because other people are going to quote the person anyways...


i think its a great idea because it keeps me calm, since i do not see the ones who irritate me:)

Becomes a much better blog, much more imformative blog.
Member Since: August 4, 2011 Posts: 43 Comments: 3953
1448. Jedkins01 4:18 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting RTSplayer:


You fail to comprehend the problem.

I've heard that a HUNDRED TIMES, and guess what? Burnt.

EVERYONE SAYS THAT, you poor blind sheep.

I've been everywhere from the mega-church to the hole in the wall church on the corner, to the hole in the wall church in the remote campground 10 miles deep in the woods, and it's the same thing.

"My church is GOOOOOD, Bible based. TRUST ME! We're the real deal. Yup. That's us. Praise Jesus!!" - that's what every church says outwardly.




That's what I just got done explaining to you.

You may be honest and even correct, but I have no way to trust you anyway, moreover, you haven't given me, or anyone else, anything that would prove that to anyone.


I can't even get to the more important, intellectually honest, "Search your real heart and soul" questions about the problems in the integrity of the Bible itself, because you can't even seem to see the obvious stuff that's wrong with the "church", and I mean all denominations and non-denominations.






For those of you who know star wars well:

THAT MEDICAL FRIGATE GONNA BLOW!!!!


Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1449. Jedkins01 4:19 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Quoting uncwhurricane85:


nah i was saying that for SPLbeater...i was using an analogy of how when you have your first beer you say you had 10 like he said they had snow in sanford, n.c. last night, which they did have enought for it to be transparent on a wooden deck



haha yeah I got what you meant, I was jk :)
Member Since: August 21, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 5322
1450. Patrap 4:20 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111244
1451. Articuno 4:27 PM GMT on February 20, 2012    
I hate winter,
the snow MISSED US COMPLETELY!
T_T

Member Since: October 22, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1926

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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