Dr. Ricky Rood's Climate Change Blog

Earthquakes and Climate Change:
Posted by: Dr. Ricky Rood, 3:52 PM GMT on October 13, 2011 +11
Earthquakes and Climate Change: Risks (1)

On March 11, 2011 there was a great earthquake in Tohoku, Japan. This earthquake caused large loss of life and property, and for the focus of this article large parts of the Fukushima nuclear power plant were destroyed. Therein is the link to climate change.



Figure 1: Poster describing 2011 Tohoku, Japan earthquake. (link to a LARGE version of this poster)


Global warming due to carbon dioxide increases is caused primarily by emissions from burning fossil fuels. Hence, there is the, now familiar, link of carbon dioxide to energy use to prosperity to population. Hence, our path to addressing climate change is finding sources of energy that do not emit carbon.

Nuclear power is a controversial issue, which I will discuss more below. But in the minds of many people, nuclear power is part of the paths to solution of the climate change problem. There is no doubt that nuclear power is low carbon, and it is a proven source of energy at societal scale. Below is a comparison of carbon emissions from different sources of energy.




Figure 2: Emissions of carbon dioxide from different sources of energy. This is from The World Nuclear Association.

The World Nuclear Association is an organization that supports the nuclear industry, and they make prominent points about the importance of nuclear energy in addressing climate change. The figure above is from a report that they generated, and it is based on a review of literature. I have looked through the report, and as a non expert, they have done a credible accumulation and reporting of information. The story that is definitive is that carbon dioxide emissions from nuclear power plants is far smaller than from fossil fuel burning, and comparable to the emissions from renewable sources of energy. Given that carbon dioxide, once emitted, is around for many thousands of years, there is an urgency to address our emission levels, and increased use of nuclear energy would benefit the reduction of global warming.

In Japan, the loss of the Fukushima power plant was a loss of a major source of electrical generation. This led to a reduction of manufacturing that had direct effects on the world’s industries and economies. It also fueled and refueled opposition to the development of nuclear power plants. In Japan there have been massive protests opposing building nuclear power plants as well as calling for closing existing plants. There was a time not long ago where Japan, a country dependent on imports for most fossil fuels, was on a path to reduce its carbon dioxide emissions below 1990 levels with the use of nuclear power. Japan has subsequently developed a policy to deemphasize nuclear power with a gradual fade out. Even with a focus on renewable energy, this decision in Japan will inevitably lead to more carbon dioxide emissions in the short term.

What I have thought was most interesting was the response in Germany. Germany decided to close its nuclear power plants by 2022. The Washington Post’s Editorial Board called this reaction to Fukushima a blunder, and there were wide spread comments that Germany’s demand for energy would inevitably lead to more coal use and an increase in both carbon dioxide emissions and public health risks. Germany’s position, however, is that they would accelerate their already aggressive programs in renewable energy. This is an interesting gamble. The challenges of meeting Germany’s energy demands with renewable energy are formidable, but if that challenge is met, then it is likely to provide Germany with technological developments and energy security that gives it huge economic advantage. Here is a nice summary story of Germany’s decision in the Christian Science Monitor.

In the earlier part of the Obama administration there was a renewed interest on nuclear energy in the U.S. Immediately after the 2011 earthquake there was significant decline in the U.S. public interest in nuclear power. This decrease came at a time when public support was at a near peak. Now a few months out, polling by the Nuclear Energy Institute, which is a “policy organization” for the nuclear energy industry, shows modest declines, but with a majority in the U.S. still supporting more nuclear energy.

Looking worldwide, there is no doubt that there will be some countries developing more nuclear energy and there will be some countries where the political environment will reduce the use of nuclear power. With regard to climate, most energy decisions are made with regard to energy needs, energy security and cost. All energy systems have their proponents. All energy systems have environmental impact; therefore, they all have opponents. The net result of this is that we continue to rely on fossil fuels, with increasing stress on energy systems and the environment. There is no doubt that the earthquake in March 2011 in Japan has influenced how we think about nuclear power. Therefore, the earthquake has an influence on how we address the energy issues that are at the root of carbon dioxide emissions and global warming.

There are two points I want to bring forward to carry to the next blog. The first is to reiterate that our world exists in many systems with fragile balance. Our energy systems are vulnerable to relatively small disruptions. Our economy is fragile. Our climate is in a balance where carbon dioxide emissions can drastically alter the balance of water between liquid and ice. The second is that all of these systems are connected. Global risks follow from an earthquake that is localized on the coast of a single island in Japan. It is this sort of systems impacts where the great risks are exposed, where climate change can have near-term impacts.

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101. JBastardi 5:35 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting AlwaysThinkin:


Weird because this is what I get from dictionary.com

lib%uFFFDer%uFFFDal%u2002 %u2002[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
Synonyms
1. progressive. 7. broad-minded, unprejudiced. 9. beneficent, charitable, openhanded, munificent, unstinting, lavish. See generous. 10. See ample.

1. reactionary. 8. intolerant. 9, 10. niggardly.

I don't know I would say the three antonyms of liberal seem more like mental disorders wouldn't you say?

Edit- Forgot this too:
Related Words for : liberal
broad, large-minded, tolerant, progressive


One who suffers from a disorder is often the last to discover the ailment. Anyone who supports the cause of taking revenue from those who support themselves and giving to those who don't is truly mentally imbalanced. That is the crux of liberalism.
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102. JBastardi 5:36 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
New study shows that the sun controls the Earth's climate. Logical conclusion to anyone but Gaia worshipers.

Link
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103. Patrap 5:39 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    


Global surface temperature (top, blue) and the Sun's energy received at the top of Earth's atmosphere (red, bottom). Solar energy has been measured by satellites since 1978.



The amount of solar energy received at the top of our atmosphere has followed its natural 11-year cycle of small ups and downs, but with no net increase. Over the same period, global temperature has risen markedly. This indicates that it is extremely unlikely that solar influence has been a significant driver of global temperature change over several decades.


Global Climate Change Indicators
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Climatic Data Center
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104. cyclonebuster 5:42 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting Patrap:


Texas officials censored climate change report
16:40 17 October 2011


Censorship will not censor the physical effects of our warming world.
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105. JBastardi 5:46 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
.
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106. cyclonebuster 5:50 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
New study shows that the sun controls the Earth's climate. Logical conclusion to anyone but Gaia worshipers.

Link


LOL! Sunspots have about as much effect on climate change as a single raindrop trying to put out a forest fire.
Member Since: January 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18758
107. Patrap 5:55 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    

How do we know the Earth's climate is warming?


Thousands of land and ocean temperature measurements are recorded each day around the globe. This includes measurements from climate reference stations, weather stations, ships, buoys and autonomous gliders in the oceans.

These surface measurements are also supplemented with satellite measurements. These measurements are processed, examined for random and systematic errors, and then finally combined to produce a time series of global average temperature change.

A number of agencies around the world have produced datasets of global-scale changes in surface temperature using different techniques to process the data and remove measurement errors that could lead to false interpretations of temperature trends.

The warming trend that is apparent in all of the independent methods of calculating global temperature change is also confirmed by other independent observations, such as the melting of mountain glaciers on every continent, reductions in the extent of snow cover, earlier blooming of plants in spring, a shorter ice season on lakes and rivers, ocean heat content, reduced arctic sea ice, and rising sea levels.



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108. JBastardi 8:51 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Global warming is forcing Britain to buy four wheel drive vehicles for the upcoming winter:

Link
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109. yonzabam 9:02 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting cyclonebuster:


LOL! Sunspots have about as much effect on climate change as a single raindrop trying to put out a forest fire.


Hmm, not really. The coldest part of the 'Little Ice Age' was called the 'Maunder Minimum' due to the fact that hardly any sunspots were seen during that period. The Little Ice Age was mainly regional, rather than global, affecting Europe in particular, and was probably caused by very slightly reduced solar output, greatly enhanced by negative feedback effects. The main feedback effect was probably increased albedo due to more extensive and longer lasting snow cover in northern latitudes.

Although you're right in that even if the sun were to become as quiet as it was during the Maunder Minimum, it wouldn't be strong enough to stop greenhouse gas driven warming.

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110. Neapolitan 9:12 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
Global warming is forcing Britain to buy four wheel drive vehicles for the upcoming winter:

Link

You know, I think I may have you figured out. You must actually be a supporter of AGWT, because only someone who truly wanted to point out the ridiculousness of GW denialism would constantly link to articles by liars like Christopher Booker. (I mean, that guy is such a buffoon that he has a prize named after him. Six--count them, six--"misrepresentations, distortions, and falsehoods" crammed into a mere 900 words? Wow! That's a special kind of dunce.)

So: welcome to the science side. We're happy to have you. And please keep posting those links to doofuses like Bastardi, Watts, Goddard, Delingpole, and Spencer; we won't tell anybody whose side you're really on. ;-)
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
111. JBastardi 9:41 PM GMT on October 17, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

You know, I think I may have you figured out. You must actually be a supporter of AGWT, because only someone who truly wanted to point out the ridiculousness of GW denialism would constantly link to articles by liars like Christopher Booker. (I mean, that guy is such a buffoon that he has a prize named after him. Six--count them, six--"misrepresentations, distortions, and falsehoods" crammed into a mere 900 words? Wow! That's a special kind of dunce.)

So: welcome to the science side. We're happy to have you. And please keep posting those links to doofuses like Bastardi, Watts, Goddard, Delingpole, and Spencer; we won't tell anybody whose side you're really on. ;-)


You forgot the Pielkes. You attack the author of the link I provided. Is it true or not that Britain is purchasing 4x4s for the upcoming winter?
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112. Neapolitan 12:27 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:


You forgot the Pielkes. You attack the author of the link I provided. Is it true or not that Britain is purchasing 4x4s for the upcoming winter?

Yes, according to news reports, the Brighton council purchased seven 4x4 "gritters" (sand spreaders)--to replace seven old ones being retired, some that were only two-wheel drive. So there's that.

Now, as anyone who has attended Atmospheric Basics 101 knows, as the world warms, there is more moisture in the air. That means more rain where it's warm and more snow where it's cold. And Brighton is at roughly the same latitude as Calgary, Canada, so, you know, it gets cold there, and it snows and everything. So there's that, too.

If Mr. Potatohead--I mean, Booker--is of the opinion that GW means that there'll be no more snow anywhere on earth ever, he's even denser than I give him credit for. And people who believe him? Well, you can figure that out for yourself...
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
113. nymore 12:31 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

You know, I think I may have you figured out. You must actually be a supporter of AGWT, because only someone who truly wanted to point out the ridiculousness of GW denialism would constantly link to articles by liars like Christopher Booker. (I mean, that guy is such a buffoon that he has a prize named after him. Six--count them, six--"misrepresentations, distortions, and falsehoods" crammed into a mere 900 words? Wow! That's a special kind of dunce.)

So: welcome to the science side. We're happy to have you. And please keep posting those links to doofuses like Bastardi, Watts, Goddard, Delingpole, and Spencer; we won't tell anybody whose side you're really on. ;-)
Since the author of the article made up the award, I have decided to make my own it is called the Neapolitan given to those who give half truths, use only parts of articles or add their own data to someones elses to make it look as if it is theirs.

Point 1 John Theon job title was Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program. He was responsible for the agencies climate and weather research including the work of James Hanson, Roy Spencer, and many others.

Point 2 The Mann graph is still highly debated and not settled. Claiming the IPCC as a source is insane it is political and not that scientific. Example 78 scientists some of which are main authors or reviewers or secondary authors are basically employees of the WWF, which pays them for everything. The WWF budget for last year was near 750,000,000 dollars. I am sure they have no bias. If they were from the Heartland Institute you would never hear the end of it.

Point 3 Arctic sea ice. In fact Arctic sea ice did recover in the winter 2007- 2008 to within 3% of the average. The arctic sea ice in Dec. 2009 was within about 3% of the average. The year 2007 is thrown in there because you remember it for being so low in the summer giving you a false assumption.

Point 4,5,6 The Antarctic temp. While the western part seems to be warming the eastern part does not and as far as the continent itself we have no reliable readings, as has been proven in a recent paper (Peer reviewed btw) that shows a warm bias by as much as 5 to 10 degrees because of the types of instruments used and there are very few readings anyway to be used so there for they rely on models which have been proven wrong many times including the last decade and not one scientist would bet his own money on them. It may very well be either warming or cooling we do not know.

Mann is an author whether he is first, fourth or sixth. Which is what he claims.

Congratulations Neapolitan on winning the award and for being one of the more biased, hypocritical people ever. BTW have you figured out profit vs profit margin yet
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114. nymore 12:38 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Yes, according to news reports, the Brighton council purchased seven 4x4 "gritters" (sand spreaders)--to replace seven old ones being retired, some that were only two-wheel drive. So there's that.

Now, as anyone who has attended Atmospheric Basics 101 knows, as the world warms, there is more moisture in the air. That means more rain where it's warm and more snow where it's cold. And Brighton is at roughly the same latitude as Calgary, Canada, so, you know, it gets cold there, and it snows and everything. So there's that, too.

If Mr. Potatohead--I mean, Booker--is of the opinion that GW means that there'll be no more snow anywhere on earth ever, he's even denser than I give him credit for. And people who believe him? Well, you can figure that out for yourself...


Mean temp Brighton England for January is 42F the temp for Calgary is 16F so it is almost close. BTW not a lot of snow falls when it is 42F. Your hilarious and foolish who were you calling a doofus or potatohead earlier. You may want to look in the mirror.

You must have missed 4th Grade Science 101 it is an ocean current that keeps Great Britain warmer in winter given the latitude. Can you guess which one? Extra points if you don't have to look it up on the internet.

FWIW the average temp in Atlanta Georgia in January is 43F and Dallas Texas 44F in conclusion both Dallas and Atlanta can look for more snow and freezing temperatures under continued Global Warming.
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115. nymore 12:43 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Patrap asks a question how do we know it is warming by looking at the graph he posted for solar activity. The temp seems to be dropping ever so slightly for the last several years that's how. Enough fun for a while. TTFN
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116. Ossqss 1:33 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
You all bicker over 1.4 degrees over 160 years and have admittedly had a 10 year hiatus attributed to sulfur scrubbing in China? Really? 1.4?

Good luck with trying to sell that moving forward.

Edit: Who calibrated those things 160 years ago? 1.4 really?
Member Since: June 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8154
117. AlwaysThinkin 1:33 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:


One who suffers from a disorder is often the last to discover the ailment. Anyone who supports the cause of taking revenue from those who support themselves and giving to those who don't is truly mentally imbalanced. That is the crux of liberalism.


Not really, but arguing with you is as logical as using a chainsaw to cut a sandwich. Therefore, I bid you adieu.
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118. Neapolitan 2:02 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Since the author of the article made up the award, I have decided to make my own it is called the Neapolitan given to those who give half truths, use only parts of articles or add their own data to someones elses to make it look as if it is theirs.

Point 1 John Theon job title was Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program. He was responsible for the agencies climate and weather research including the work of James Hanson, Roy Spencer, and many others.

Point 2 The Mann graph is still highly debated and not settled. Claiming the IPCC as a source is insane it is political and not that scientific. Example 78 scientists some of which are main authors or reviewers or secondary authors are basically employees of the WWF, which pays them for everything. The WWF budget for last year was near 750,000,000 dollars. I am sure they have no bias. If they were from the Heartland Institute you would never hear the end of it.

Point 3 Arctic sea ice. In fact Arctic sea ice did recover in the winter 2007- 2008 to within 3% of the average. The arctic sea ice in Dec. 2009 was within about 3% of the average. The year 2007 is thrown in there because you remember it for being so low in the summer giving you a false assumption.

Point 4,5,6 The Antarctic temp. While the western part seems to be warming the eastern part does not and as far as the continent itself we have no reliable readings, as has been proven in a recent paper (Peer reviewed btw) that shows a warm bias by as much as 5 to 10 degrees because of the types of instruments used and there are very few readings anyway to be used so there for they rely on models which have been proven wrong many times including the last decade and not one scientist would bet his own money on them. It may very well be either warming or cooling we do not know.

Mann is an author whether he is first, fourth or sixth. Which is what he claims.

Congratulations Neapolitan on winning the award and for being one of the more biased, hypocritical people ever. BTW have you figured out profit vs profit margin yet

Ya' know, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if only you had actual science to back up such debunked and warmed-over Fox/WUWT/WeatherBell/Goddard/etc. blather. Because you don't, I really can't even feign caring enough to respond. Good night...
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119. nymore 2:38 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Ya' know, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if only you had actual science to back up such debunked and warmed-over Fox/WUWT/WeatherBell/Goddard/etc. blather. Because you don't, I really can't even feign caring enough to respond. Good night...
Point 1 source Wiki. If you control the money you are in "effect" someones boss. While I or you may not report to that person. If push comes to shove I know who wins from experience, it's always the one with the checkbook.

Point 2 source WWF annual financial report. If you like I can name all 78 scientists and their jobs in the IPCC 2007 report. Oh and I can throw in 30 or 40 more who work for Greenpeace

Point 3 source National Snow and Ice Data Center

Point 4,5,6 Warming west ice sheet several articles, east antarctic showing no warming several articles. Warming bias which is higher than I said 8C to 10C or 14F to 18F is from a report in the American Meteorological Society 8/1/2011. The models are not good and how can they be right for Antarctica when the temp numbers you add are off by as much 18 degrees F.

Nothing from Fox, WUWT, Weatherbell, Goddard or ect. I do not need them.
You have no argument or nothing to dispute them and you know it, so as always you scream some nonsense about denial sites to add your normal straw man argument. You have been taken to the wood shed again sir. I can always source you just take from left wing web sites

While I am having fun at your expense here is another one Al Gore faked what he called the simple thermometer experiment in 24 hours of climate reality. The one showing warming when co2 is added in the jar. If you can not find proof of this claim I will be happy to provide it just ask. BTW if it is so simple why fake it.
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120. Ossqss 2:42 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Ya' know, this conversation would be a lot more interesting if only you had actual science to back up such debunked and warmed-over Fox/WUWT/WeatherBell/Goddard/etc. blather. Because you don't, I really can't even feign caring enough to respond. Good night...


Do you ever provide counter data to anything?

At least your consistent............

You complain, but provide no solutions......... only rhetoric ...... very weak... to say the least !!

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121. JBastardi 3:01 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting AlwaysThinkin:


Not really, but arguing with you is as logical as using a chainsaw to cut a sandwich. Therefore, I bid you adieu.


I'm sorry for your loss.
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122. JBastardi 3:07 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Yes, according to news reports, the Brighton council purchased seven 4x4 "gritters" (sand spreaders)--to replace seven old ones being retired, some that were only two-wheel drive. So there's that.

Now, as anyone who has attended Atmospheric Basics 101 knows, as the world warms, there is more moisture in the air. That means more rain where it's warm and more snow where it's cold. And Brighton is at roughly the same latitude as Calgary, Canada, so, you know, it gets cold there, and it snows and everything. So there's that, too.

If Mr. Potatohead--I mean, Booker--is of the opinion that GW means that there'll be no more snow anywhere on earth ever, he's even denser than I give him credit for. And people who believe him? Well, you can figure that out for yourself...


No matter how many times you say it, warming doesn't cause more snow. You must be a student of the old adage, "if you keep saying something long enough, people begin to believe it."
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123. Neapolitan 8:38 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Ossqss:


Do you ever provide counter data to anything?

Yes.
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124. Neapolitan 8:49 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:


No matter how many times you say it, warming doesn't cause more snow. You must be a student of the old adage, "if you keep saying something long enough, people begin to believe it."

Well, it's not just me saying it, champ. See, there are these people called "scientists" who study this stuff, and they're the ones who say it.

Here

...and here

...and here

...and here

...and here

...and here.

Getting one's science education from denialist sites is like getting diet information from the National Association for the Advancement of Saturated Fats.
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125. sandiquiz 9:21 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Just a comment on the Brighton versus Calgary debate.

Brighton is on the southern coast of the UK, protected from the prevailing Atlantic weather by the Jurassic Coast.

I found this information from the UK met office.

The occurrence of snow is linked closely with temperature, with falls rarely occurring if the temperature is higher than 4C. (39F) For snow to lie for any length of time, the temperature normally has to be lower than this. Over most of the area, snowfall is normally confined to the months from November to April, Snow rarely lies on the ground longer than four days.
On average, the number of days with snow falling is about 12-15 per year.


Calgary, on the other hand, (and I know as hubby was working in Calgary during this period) had snow on the ground from early November until April, with temperatures below freezing for many of the days between the same period. It even snowed on May 28th last year.
What was it doing in Brighton on the same date? Sunny and 24C (75F)

Member Since: October 29, 2005 Posts: 252 Comments: 22409
126. greentortuloni 9:46 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

You know, I think I may have you figured out. You must actually be a supporter of AGWT, because only someone who truly wanted to point out the ridiculousness of GW denialism would constantly link to articles by liars like Christopher Booker. (I mean, that guy is such a buffoon that he has a prize named after him. Six--count them, six--"misrepresentations, distortions, and falsehoods" crammed into a mere 900 words? Wow! That's a special kind of dunce.)

So: welcome to the science side. We're happy to have you. And please keep posting those links to doofuses like Bastardi, Watts, Goddard, Delingpole, and Spencer; we won't tell anybody whose side you're really on. ;-)


Honestly I thought of that as well. I stopped replying to JB because I figured that roughly there is an IQ divide seperating denialists from believers. JB was simply lowering the bar and hence converting more people.

I realize there are other issues, for example: emotional hatred of liberals and since boig oil has succesfully linked the issue with liberals, some intelligent but intellectually weak people are believing what their emotions say rather than their intelligence. There is also the simple payment issue: I really think JB et al don't have time/scientific capacity to actually provide real answers or reasons but is still contractually obligated to provide a certain number of posts per week. I suppose if I cared enough I would look to see if there is a pattern to his posting to support a quota theory.
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127. greentortuloni 9:51 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting sandiquiz:
Just a comment on the Brighton versus Calgary debate.

Brighton is on the southern coast of the UK, protected from the prevailing Atlantic weather by the Jurassic Coast.

I found this information from the UK met office.

The occurrence of snow is linked closely with temperature, with falls rarely occurring if the temperature is higher than 4C. (39F) For snow to lie for any length of time, the temperature normally has to be lower than this. Over most of the area, snowfall is normally confined to the months from November to April, Snow rarely lies on the ground longer than four days.
On average, the number of days with snow falling is about 12-15 per year.


Calgary, on the other hand, (and I know as hubby was working in Calgary during this period) had snow on the ground from early November until April, with temperatures below freezing for many of the days between the same period. It even snowed on May 28th last year.
What was it doing in Brighton on the same date? Sunny and 24C (75F)



Nea point about why they bought the 4x4s is still valid (note i didn't bother reading the article so don't call me out on this one.)

In general, weather patterns are changing and more snow/greater strength of a given blizzard doesn't provide evidence either way. It is the long term patterns GLOBALLY that count.

If you keep playing the 'blizzard lottery' you will lose. Global Warming is the house and the house always wins in teh long run.
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128. greentortuloni 9:56 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
By the way:

link

link

link
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129. Xandra 10:18 AM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Point 1 John Theon job title was Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program. He was responsible for the agencies climate and weather research including the work of James Hanson.
source Wiki.
Your source is Wiki and Wiki's source are Inhofe and Morano

It's ridiculous.Give me a source from NASA instead.
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130. Neapolitan 12:47 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting sandiquiz:
Just a comment on the Brighton versus Calgary debate.

Brighton is on the southern coast of the UK, protected from the prevailing Atlantic weather by the Jurassic Coast.

I found this information from the UK met office.

The occurrence of snow is linked closely with temperature, with falls rarely occurring if the temperature is higher than 4C. (39F) For snow to lie for any length of time, the temperature normally has to be lower than this. Over most of the area, snowfall is normally confined to the months from November to April, Snow rarely lies on the ground longer than four days.
On average, the number of days with snow falling is about 12-15 per year.


Calgary, on the other hand, (and I know as hubby was working in Calgary during this period) had snow on the ground from early November until April, with temperatures below freezing for many of the days between the same period. It even snowed on May 28th last year.
What was it doing in Brighton on the same date? Sunny and 24C (75F)


It seems that some misconstrued my comment as saying that Brighton's weather is the same as Calgary's. It's not. My original comment was "Brighton is at roughly the same latitude as Calgary, Canada, so, you know, it gets cold there, and it snows and everything." And that statement is simple fact. And that's why the council had to purchase seven new sand spreaders to replace the seven old, used, worn-out ones they had on hand.

No, my comment was directed at Christopher Booker, a dishonest and discredited denialist who attempted to claim that because A) Brighton was replacing some old road maintenance equipment, then B) the planet isn't warming. And that's about as woefully ignorant idiotic an inference as I believe I've ever seen.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
131. Xandra 3:07 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
If "global warming" is all about science, why do climatologists who support the theory of AGW have to hide their correspondences and the methodology by which they arrive at their questionable findings?

Link
JBastardi. You don't have to be a dancer to Watts et al. You can cut the cord whenever you want. It's easy!

Member Since: November 22, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 758
132. JBastardi 4:53 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Well, it's not just me saying it, champ. See, there are these people called "scientists" who study this stuff, and they're the ones who say it.

Here

...and here

...and here

...and here

...and here

...and here.

Getting one's science education from denialist sites is like getting diet information from the National Association for the Advancement of Saturated Fats.


How is it that you have so much time to post? Did you bring your laptop to the "Occupy Wall Street" demonstration?
Member Since: July 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
133. Neapolitan 5:04 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:


How is it that you have so much time to post? Did you bring your laptop to the "Occupy Wall Street" demonstration?

I haven't made it to New York this month, unfortunately. But I'm lucky enough to live close to two OX events, and attended them both. Didn't bring my laptop; I used my iPad to live blog, and to comment on a large handful of websites (including this one). But believe it or not, I don't "have that much time to post"; I'm just a fast writer, that's all.
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
134. CaneFreeCR 5:07 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
I somehow doubt that photovoltaic power uses 3 times the carbon-based energy that nuclear power does -- manufacturing and transport of photovoltaics have to use less energy than construction of nuclear plants. So there is an expected bias to the report showing up -- what other biases are there? And I suspect the report does not address safety issues or nuclear terrorism issues any better. "Don't let's look at negative stuff!"
Member Since: August 12, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 22
135. Neapolitan 5:34 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
The NOAA is out with its January-September state-by-state temperature rankings. As you can see from the map below:

RECORD WARMEST: 1
MUCH ABOVE NORMAL: 7
ABOVE NORMAL: 19
----------------
NEAR NORMAL: 17
----------------
BELOW NORMAL: 4
MUCH BELOW NORMAL: 0
RECORD COLDEST: 0

To summarize, then: four states have been below normal in 2011, 17 have been near normal, and 27 others have been above to much above normal. I guess someone should break the news to Joe "it'll start getting cold any second now" Bastardi.

uh-oh
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
136. cyclonebuster 6:01 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Island of La palma "El Hierro" volcano erupting? Should East coast of US be concerned?

img src="">

Ever watch this Simon Day documentary?

Link

And simulation?

img src="">
Member Since: January 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18758
137. JBastardi 6:07 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Even the Washington Post has conceded that this year is much cooler. I don't know where all of these posts that the earth is getting warmer are coming from:

Link
Member Since: July 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
138. cyclonebuster 6:10 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
Even the Washington Post has conceded that this year is much cooler. I don't know where all of these posts that the earth is getting warmer are coming from:

Link


Washington does not = Global. Comprende?
Member Since: January 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18758
139. Patrap 6:15 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Gee,, I logged out and peeked and well, LOL
Member Since: July 3, 2005 Posts: 370 Comments: 111274
140. Neapolitan 7:26 PM GMT on October 18, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
Even the Washington Post has conceded that this year is much cooler. I don't know where all of these posts that the earth is getting warmer are coming from:

Link

Sigh...
Member Since: November 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11147
141. nymore 12:34 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting Xandra:
Your source is Wiki and Wiki's source are Inhofe and Morano

It's ridiculous.Give me a source from NASA instead.
Is the information wrong? If it is please provide proof.
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047
142. nymore 12:43 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:
The NOAA is out with its January-September state-by-state temperature rankings. As you can see from the map below:

RECORD WARMEST: 1
MUCH ABOVE NORMAL: 7
ABOVE NORMAL: 19
----------------
NEAR NORMAL: 17
----------------
BELOW NORMAL: 4
MUCH BELOW NORMAL: 0
RECORD COLDEST: 0

To summarize, then: four states have been below normal in 2011, 17 have been near normal, and 27 others have been above to much above normal. I guess someone should break the news to Joe "it'll start getting cold any second now" Bastardi.

uh-oh
Lets do this by percentage. (SQ. MI.) 48 states
Normal = 43.67% 1,362,543 sq mi
Above normal = 27.39% 854,656 sq mi
Below normal = 10.39% 324,386 sq mi
Much above = 9.92% 309,720 sq mi
Record = 8.60% 268,580 sq mi
Total sq mi contiguous USA = 3,119,885 sq mi

Normal is the vast percentage. Those of you who will try and add up all above temps, don't forget to take off the below normal from the above normal before adding up.

BTW I believe JB was talking globally not regionally. Look at post 103 notice the slight dip in global temps. You just can not get out of your own way

I may be off by a smidgen as I did this quickly
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047
143. nymore 12:45 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting cyclonebuster:


Washington does not = Global. Comprende?
If you don't even know it is a newspaper he is referring to you are playing with less cards than I gave you credit for. Peace out for a while.
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047
144. Birthmark 1:17 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting JBastardi:
Even the Washington Post has conceded that this year is much cooler. I don't know where all of these posts that the earth is getting warmer are coming from:

Link

This year is much cooler than...what, exactly?
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1414
145. Birthmark 1:18 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Is the information wrong? If it is please provide proof.

Is the information right? If so, then please provide evidence. The burden is upon the claimant.
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1414
146. nymore 1:40 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting Birthmark:

Is the information right? If so, then please provide evidence. The burden is upon the claimant.
Jobs at NASA having to do with climate held by John Theon: NASA research scientist (Goddard Space Flight Center) Head, Meteorology Branch (GSFC), Asst Chief, Lab for Atmospheric Sciences (GSFC), Program scientist, NASA Global Weather Research Program (NASA HQ), Chief, Atmospheric Dynamics and Radiation Branch (NASA HQ), Chief, Atmospheric Dynamics, Radiation and Hydrology Branch (NASA HQ), Chief, Climate Processes Research Program (NASA HQ)

In "effect" Hansons' superior. Like I said earlier if push comes to shove at the time Hanson has no chance of winning the battle against Theon
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047
147. Birthmark 1:55 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Jobs at NASA having to do with climate held by John Theon: NASA research scientist (Goddard Space Flight Center) Head, Meteorology Branch (GSFC), Asst Chief, Lab for Atmospheric Sciences (GSFC), Program scientist, NASA Global Weather Research Program (NASA HQ), Chief, Atmospheric Dynamics and Radiation Branch (NASA HQ), Chief, Atmospheric Dynamics, Radiation and Hydrology Branch (NASA HQ), Chief, Climate Processes Research Program (NASA HQ)

In "effect" Hansons' superior. Like I said earlier if push comes to shove at the time Hanson has no chance of winning the battle against Theon

But how would Theon fare against Muhammad Ali (in his prime)? It has just as much relevance to the topic.
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1414
148. Birthmark 1:57 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Lets do this by percentage. (SQ. MI.) 48 states
Normal = 43.67% 1,362,543 sq mi
Above normal = 27.39% 854,656 sq mi
Below normal = 10.39% 324,386 sq mi
Much above = 9.92% 309,720 sq mi
Record = 8.60% 268,580 sq mi
Total sq mi contiguous USA = 3,119,885 sq mi

Normal is the vast percentage. Those of you who will try and add up all above temps, don't forget to take off the below normal from the above normal before adding up.

BTW I believe JB was talking globally not regionally. Look at post 103 notice the slight dip in global temps. You just can not get out of your own way

I may be off by a smidgen as I did this quickly

43.67% is "the vast percentage?"

And why should below average temperatures be taken off?
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1414
149. nymore 2:00 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting Birthmark:

But how would Theon fare against Muhammad Ali (in his prime)? It has just as much relevance to the topic.
Don't like the truth huh. Well I can not do anything about that
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047
150. Birthmark 2:03 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Don't like the truth huh. Well I can not do anything about that


I like the truth just fine. I especially like it when it's complete and relevant. I understand, though, that not everyone is so particular as me. ;)
Member Since: October 30, 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 1414
151. nymore 2:06 AM GMT on October 19, 2011    
Quoting Birthmark:


I like the truth just fine. I especially like it when it's complete and relevant. I understand, though, that not everyone is so particular as me. ;)
You asked me to back up the claim and I did. Your just pissy because you can not refute it
Member Since: July 6, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2047

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About RickyRood
I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles include ideas from the course. And no tuition!

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